Is waterjetting a no no in custom handmade knives?

Terminology changes, one day it's called hand made, the next something else. It's not technology, nor voting with your wallet, it's how society changes. just look at the social changes going on around us. So, I think a "hand made" knife will begin to mean something other than what it seems to mean now. People will begin to accept wider and wider parameters as to what "hand made" means. Now, a "custom" knife? Seems to encompass the changes fairly nicely. And, these comments are simply my musing out loud. Lol.
 
In the past I would have called anything handmade defines a custom knife. Now its more like anything thats not made on an assembly line and hand fitted is a custom knife.
 
This could go on forever. Water jetting, band saw, side grinder, plasma torch, they all good for cutting custom blanks in my eyes. But for hand made, NAH, that would be the trusty forge and hammer...
 
Cajun Kamikaze said:
This could go on forever. Water jetting, band saw, side grinder, plasma torch, they all good for cutting custom blanks in my eyes. But for hand made, NAH, that would be the trusty forge and hammer...
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The difference with waterjetting as opposed to "band saw, side grinder, plasma torch" is the waterjetting is done by a subcontractor and generally for a batch of knives with the same pattern. The human hand of the maker guides the band saw, side grinder, plasma torch...unless there is an assistant or apprentice. :)
 
LOL! This WILL go on forever.

Cajun K: Your hammer is a primitive tool, but it replaces a rock which was much less efficient. The same can be said about waterjetting machines to 'hand cutting' with a saw (which is a remarkably advanced tool.)

BS: One could argue that assistants, apprentices, and subcontractors all do work by 'hands'. We need yet another term: 'Mostly Sole Handmade with Progressive Tools' (MSHPT) ... LOL.

Tell me how you made (manufactured, produced, machined, jobbed out, spit out) it, and let the public decide. :)

Coop
 
Water jet is used by one of favorite makers(and probably many of you) but I believe its still a custom as the blades are still done by hand. I could be wrong, I mean I got married once so Ive been wrong before.
 
well since i read this whole thread i feel like i owe it to myself to post my useless opinion. Handmade is whatever you think it is as long as the maker is doing his own designs... it's all just varying degrees of handmade. if we didn't use tools, where would it end? I know that it would take me a lot longer to file each blade by hand than to use my 2x72" grinder and if i can eventually get my blanks water jet I will be able to make 3 knives in the time it takes to make 2 now, but i don't feel like i am cheating anyone by using that technology.

P.S. total transparency, i use a jig too and if i can buy flat ground... all the better.
 
Custom competition superbikes pieces are waterjetted and CNC'ed, so there are also high end knives wich relay on massive computational operations with a lot of toughts and care standing behind.
The end product rules the value of the piece, but so does the "manmadeship" and the one-of-a-kind thing...not to mention the name on the blade.
Customers and collectors agree to spend money for the different meanings a knife has...
if you waterjet the blank of the knife i designed as my own one of a kind i may be happier than if you handfiled or forged your model to give me a knife the same as others have and will....
The matter is subjective beacause a knife is a knife but knifemaking could also be pure art...the entire spectrum in between.
 
But doesn't custom made mean that is made upon customer's request of personal specifications? (like design, materials, engraving etc..).
If someone forges identical pieces they are not necessarily custom made. Custom and hand made are different definitions.
What about custom wrenches files and screwdrivers? ;)
 
Can a custom knife be made only by hand?
Is a hand made knife necessarily custom?
 
killharder said:
I often wonder if die hard knife inthusiasts care if their knife started from a blank that the designer thought up drafted and had waterjet out, rather than using a band saw or files to create. Does it take away from the end product if it is still designed and created out of a passion to make beautiful high quality product. Sometimes when I am hand drilling and hand sawing my knife blank out, I think there has to be a better quicker way of doing this. So does the amount of labor and sweat spent cutting out a blank add value to the end item? And is it no longer considered handmade?

I love making things by hand and I do love the reactions I receive when people ask "how did you make it?" And I say with hand tools. The reaction is priceless. I ask this question, because I see comments when people make a great looking high quality knife and one person asks "was it waterjet out?" So does it matter?
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Maybe we should return to the original post. I believe that in the world of non-production knives, the way a knife is made is important. I know this is true for many makers, just read some of the works in progress, one gentleman makes his own glue.

The first custom knife I bought is one of the best users I have. The maker freely volunteered that it was drawn and then cut from a sawmill blade with a torch. It was rough ground with a grinder and finished by hand with files and sandpaper. The wood came from the woodpile and the pins were copper harness rivets. He was just as proud of the construction material and methods as he was of the knife. It's finish was unremarkable, even poor, but the design and functionality was superb. Best $25 I've ever spent on a knife :)

Per the question "So does the amount of labor and sweat spent cutting out a blank add value to the end item?" For some makers and buyers, for sure. For example, the way the Loerchner's cut their blanks is important to them. Fowler forges his from ball bearings.

Per the question "And is it no longer considered handmade?" If the blank is made by a subcontractor, I believe you should not call it a hand made knife. Like Terzuola says, the knife was built. Some makers say their knives were made by taking a water jet blank which is finished by power tools with hand done finish and hand honed edge.

Randall still puts their edge on by hand with a stone...I've seen it. Makers should take their example, they do not call their knives custom or hand made. They make designs "customized" for specific purposes and give a very detailed description of how their knives are made...they do not water jet :)
 
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With regards to Terzuola; I have his book "The tactical folding knife". In there he writes (free from the top of my head): "I also believe that knife makers should not be afraid to take advantage of new technology such as laser or water jet cutting". He also touches the subject of using jigs for grinding vs freehand and states that each maker should do what he feels most comfortable doing and what produces the best result.

Personally, I don't say that I produce "Handmade knives", nor do I call myself a "Custom knife maker".

I tell people how my knives are made and say I am a "Knifemaker".

Brian
 
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