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Me too Laars, me too. Like those last two posts up there for example. :thumbup:
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It followed me home (Part 2)
- Thread starter Steve Tall
- Start date
Me too Laars, me too. Like those last two posts up there for example. :thumbup:
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- Jan 29, 2014
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- 1,638
Had a little more luck today. Stopped at a Buddy's looking for some weathered wood for a project. He and his wife run an auction online selling various old things that he "picks". He is always trying to sell me axes but he never has anything that im interested in. For the last while they have been cleaning/organizing two large out buildings and a barn. I thought I would poke around as ive never actually seen 90% of the stuff due to the chaos. First I spotted this fawns foot poking out of a pile
I got pretty excited when I saw the big round knob.
There's no way that's a particularly new handle and check out that grain orientation. Cool handle regardless IMO.
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I have not been going crazy buying as much lately as I have been feeling a bit burned out by it. I'm not giving it a break exactly, but a breather. A slower pace. I forgot what got me into this in the beginning, what I find to be enjoyable and that is the fixing and making things nice again. I've been carving handles. I haven't posted many of those as they are mostly hammers lately.
Anyway, I picked this stuff up today, $30 total for everything, including $10 for that 18" chainsaw. I am most thrilled about that.
Anyway, I picked this stuff up today, $30 total for everything, including $10 for that 18" chainsaw. I am most thrilled about that.
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That's the way I was taught to orient grain by some of the old timers. They said there was more flex to pop the chip. I see a lot of the really old handles with perfect horizontal grain..
Horizontal grain would be lovely for that deft flick of the wrist in order to pop a chip but with delicate curved handles ya really gotta decide what's more important over the long run; short life and good vibes or vice versa. But you can have both if you choose in favour of a straight haft (and horizontal grain) to fill the bill.
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- Jan 10, 2015
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quinton- You were taught wrong.
Bernie, don't take me wrong, just tell me why you think I was taught wrong? Could it be you were taught wrong? Was it a regional thing? I really don't know.. What I do know, is, no more than people use an axe today, grain orientation really don't matter. But, when an axe was used all day long it did!
I'm not new at this stuff, I've been around, and used axes for many years. I've made helves and used axes with the grain running perfectly in both directions. For felling, and bucking horizontal grain is best! Maybe you should make you a helve and give it a try if you never have..(I have several seasoned Hickory staves, and I'll send you one free of charge if you wish to give it a try)..Hell, I'll make you a helve free of charge if you want to give one a try!
I was taught by a generation of axe men that are gone now, most by a couple of decades. They used an axe day in, day out, every day, to make a living and feed they're families.. They were not employed by the government, they had to "root hog or die"! I had the privilege of living close to one of them and spent numerous days afield with him when I was a young man. Thank God I was interested in axes, and such when I was young or I would not have that knowledge today.
Over the years I have seen several older axes that have "perfect" horizontal grain in the handle, just the way ol' Heskel told me to make them. The old man said with the grain running horizontal the extra snap in the handle would pop the chip better..and it does!
If you use horizontal grain on a curved haft you have essentially set yourself up with thorough grain 'runout' both front and back of the curves. These sorts of hafts are inevitably short-lived as any overstrike or hard pry will stress the handle beyond the breaking point. Straight hafts are not so critical since the maker/installer/user didn't deliberately set himself up with 'manufactured' grain runout.
Back in January of this year I posted a thread with pictures on why and how to choose curved axe handles. I have intentionally inspected broken axe and other tool handles, specifically looking for reasons for breaks, for almost 40 years and I do think I learned a few things along the way.
Back in January of this year I posted a thread with pictures on why and how to choose curved axe handles. I have intentionally inspected broken axe and other tool handles, specifically looking for reasons for breaks, for almost 40 years and I do think I learned a few things along the way.
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One of the advantages of hickory is its horizontal strength relative to other woods. Given the lack of force on the handle when bucking there's no real need to worry about breaking the handle apart from a miss, so I'd say there may be something to it. Old timers have some good thoughts.
Grain orientation for strength is simply overrated when it comes to axe selection, especially with hickory handles. Ash or birch I'd say make it straight, but hickory can be horizontal.
Grain orientation for strength is simply overrated when it comes to axe selection, especially with hickory handles. Ash or birch I'd say make it straight, but hickory can be horizontal.
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I think that this is one of those issues where it matters much less that people think, but still- if you have a choice to have something that may be %10 better why not do it? All things being equal of course. If I saw a handle that was beautiful and had diagonal grain I would not care in the least. I would only really worry about 90 degree orientation if it is a long curved handle like a traditional axe. Straight handles with no runout and shorter handles I wouldn't worry too much. I just placed a 5 handle order with House Handle (nothing over 28") and did not ask for hand selection.
Having said all that- all things being equal and given a choice I still take straight grain every time.
The majority of handles are some version or degree of diagonal or curved-within grain, and those are all perfectly functional. It's run-out that creates bad luck, and if you choose to use horizontal grain on a curved haft you unintentionally create run out.
Pictured below is a lovely grain handle beside a real 'dog' that wouldn't survive through one weekend. Pretty-looking for a wallhanger or decorative hang and that's it.
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It was just an off hand comment about that particular handle, I didn't mean to resurrect this thoroughly dead horse. My mistake. Just let her die in peace.
jb, good to get back to the thing you enjoyed about it. I think that's a good move. The rest of us need master pickers like you to stay enthusiastic so whatever it takes.
jb, good to get back to the thing you enjoyed about it. I think that's a good move. The rest of us need master pickers like you to stay enthusiastic so whatever it takes.
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Wow that is amazing in the "grotesque I can't stop looking at it" sort of way. It doesn't even have a grain alignment problem, it's like they took a 45 degree cross section of a tree and made a handle out of it. Bizarre.
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- Sep 24, 2014
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I've seen one that was about an 80° cross section... Looked like a child could break it with one hand. No idea how that passed quality control... Oh wait-there is no quality control any more.
I bought both of these (including brand-new handle to the right) 6 months ago at a reputable hardware store because I couldn't believe that realistic manufacture Quality Control would have let something like this (handle to the right) pass by. Myself would have fired the lad (or maybe laddie) for allowing this glitch to go through, but gradually realized that 'made in America' has increasingly become a slippery slope of minimum wage/no-experience workers, that do their darndest at tasks but otherwise haven't a clue what they're doing.
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It most likely wasn't the worker's fault. If the company demanded better than a worker turning this out would be corrected pretty quickly. More likely the cause is a profit/cost driven employer. That worker probably had no choice but to turn out what his bosses told him was acceptable whether he thought so or not. Lets nip this though as it is the wrong thread. I'm happy to continue the topic of consumer driven pricing bringing us crap in another thread. But in general the public get's what it asks for- garbage.
How many jobs I have quit over the past 35 years in disgust of then-current ethics and/or quality control standards easily numbers the fingers of one hand. But I have never been a lumber grader nor a finished product appraiser, but I have seriously grown to appreciate what it is/was these folks were expected to do at one time. Back in 1979 I was mesmerized at watching the dressed lumber grader/sorter (of stud grade 2 x 4s) at the Krown Zellerbach mill in Kelowna BC and that seasoned fellow was some deft and adept at deciding which direction any one of hundreds of 2 x 4s per minute were headed: straight on through, into the 'econo' chute, or into the sawdust/woodchip/skid pile. Their automated conveyor system did allow 'iffy' boards to be machine flipped and be directed around for a second look.
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My thought exactly City, I knew it was old and hoping for some good steel on the end of it. Unfortunately the handle is unsalvageable, regardless of grain orientation. Betweeen the uncut fawns foot and the knob being twice as wide as the rest of the handle it would have been a special piece
Don't toss it. With handles being oversized and thick these days you can use the old haft as a template or model while you rasp away the excess.