It stinks having to pay for sharpening now

[brownshoe]

I'm with Snow.

When you buy a knife that's to last a long time, you want the original level of service to be maintained. I personally have had a fair number of spydercos that have needed repairs of one kind or another, none due to abuse. One of the reasons I didn't care about these problems is because of what your hear from spyderholics all the time "just send it back, they'll fix or replace."

However, Spyderco used to offer better service than they do now. As I said earlier, if you buy spyderco now, you know what to expect. But those of us with older knives, the service we expected when we bought the knife, only a few years ago, is now no longer available. Even when its a manufacturing design flaw (e.g. the Jot and integral clips mentioned before). That's a disappointment and a reason to think twice before buying spyderco today.

 

[Senate]

maybe they stopped offering that kind of service because too many people were using their spydies as screwdrivers and then sent them back for a free resharpening, therefore taking unfair advantage of spyderco's generosity...

good things should be enjoyed in moderation

 

[STR]

Just last month I sent Spyderco a 1992 Delica with integral clip because when I finally pulled it out to use it I noticed it had what I thought was excessive vertical blade movement. So, I sent it to them and they agreed with me and gave me a brand new Delica with the VG10 blade steel as a replacment. So again from my point of view I don't see how anyone can say they have changed at all. They still take care of their customers better than Cold Steel or any of the other companies I've bought from. And they back up their work and cover their mistakes as well as any I've dealt with also.

I guess you can't please everyone.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Sorry for the disappointment for those displeased. Thanx much for the kind words forf those that do feel taken advantage of.

We do what we feel will best serve our customer in the best way possible for both the customer and Spyderco.

Spyderco knives are made quite well and last a long time. You would be amazed at the number of people that would purchase a well used Spyderco knife and expect us to refurbish it for free. It's just an unrealistic expectation.

Most companies require a proof of purchase these days before they'll repair anything.

Our goal is to take care of our customer. If we feel it's a defect that was created in our manufacturing, we'll generally replace the knife or offer another model of equal value if we no longer make the knife.

If we feel the knife has been abused, or the customer has unrealistic expectations, we charge for the service.

It sucks to have to buy new tires.

sal

 

[Snow]

Yeah I'm not really sure why I posted about it. Maybe I'm just a complainer at heart. I understand the necessity of changing the policy, it was just a letdown when I was prepared to send a knife in and then I learned that it was going to cost me.

It's like if Spyderco gave a dozen free donuts with every knife sold and then discontinued that practice due to it being costly. It was great when it lasted, and just because I'm disappointed they don't do it anymore doesn't mean I don't think it's fair and valid.

 

[timjmayer]

I gotta say,

I have always liked Spyderco's, and buy them, but I am going to go out of my way to give Sal my business, as I truly think he goes out of his way to earn it...

I am impressed that you come here to answer questions,

I am impressed on the quality of your products

I am impressed by the overall quality of your company.

there is nothing wrong with trying to make a company profitable,


it is quite obvious that if you wanted to you could make even more money at the end users expense...

your a classy dude with a classy company,,

and most of all

your knives are awesome!

thank you

 

[Ed Ricketts]

I couldn't agree more...it does suck having to buy new tires...I coulda bought a folder! (BTW, free donuts ain't a bad idea either. Make mine fruit filled, please...cherry, maybe some peach, apricot & apple for variety. )

 

[Sal Glesser]

Thank you Tim.

sal

-----------------------------------------

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!

 

[brownshoe]

Well the official response was a slick avoidance of the presented examples with a few well turned phrases on other topics (tires?) to misdirect attention. However, from the official response, there is an implicit admission that what was once free is now a charge item. A $20 fee for sharpening and taking out some dings for what was once free is now acceptable for a $40 knife (pretty high price for <15 min work). One can also gather that although Spyderco now charges for repairs, they are not going to offer a true repair service like some other companies (e.g. stock replacment parts for discontinued or Japanese knives).

It is also implied that knife replacements for design failures can and will be discontinued, even though the problem is still a design defect (e.g. the Jot clip, or failed integral clips). It is also implied that it must now be policy to keep the warranty hidden from customers since knives are now provided without warranty slips or catalogs with the warranty info (e.g. my recently received knife from SFO.) It alsos appears that virtually no Spyderco customers are disappointed in these changes.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis -- Times change, and we change with them.

It appears to me that virtually no Spyderco customers are disappointed in these changes since the knives overwhelmingly perform so well, and hold up under serious, long-term use.

It is not true that we now pay a $20 fee for sharpening and taking out some dings. The example that began this thread was of a knife with a snapped off tip, not "some dings". Personally, I have little sympathy for a knife knut who won't sharpen his own blades.

 

[4 s ter]

Brownshoe

I think you are "implying" much more than Sal did. Maybe the reason people aren't dissatified with these changes is because they don't see Sal's comments as "implying" as many changes negative changes as you do. Things change, but as usual, you choose to apply the worst possible interpretation. Many of us aren't as pessimistic.

David

 

[brownshoe]

Snapped off tips used to be covered. It takes very little time to reprofile a tip...$20 is excessive, particularly for a $40 knife. Repairs due to design flaws used to be covered. Not any more.

Spydercos hold up well over long term use? Maybe, but they certainly need repair, both mine and others on this forum. I've had 4 experiences with Spyderco warranty repair under the old warranty conditions and my results were not satisfactory.

In one case I was ignored; e-mails and phone calls not answered. I just live with the screwed up handle.

The second case my tip was reprofiled since it broke off, I wanted the blade replaced, but spyderco doesn't stock blades for Japanese knives. It was reprofiled for free, but I got a letter telling me it wouldn't ever be free again. Their policy had changed. I believe the tip broke due to inappropriate tip geometry for the steel type... a design flaw.

The third case my clip tore out of my Jot, they wouldn't repair the knive by simpling tapping the screw into the existing liner. They told me they don't repair knives, only replace them. They replaced the knife with another, but wouldn't return the Jot, even though it was still functional as a clipless knife. They wouldn't say why...just no new knife unless spyderco keeps the old.

Finally I had a linerlock that was loose. Sent it in, it came back and loosened up worse than ever before in only 1 day of use. Sent it back again. Never received the requested postage refund for the failed warranty repair. Knife loosened up again in 2 weeks...fixed it myself.

So, for my Lum and Starmate with blade play...I fix it myself. For my Harpy that was blunting the tip on the spacer...I fixed it myselfe with a file. For my Harpy that has now developed some slight play...I live with it because that's "normal" for a spyderco lockback. For my Mouse with the scratched scale...I kept it because even though it says Spyderco, it ain't covered by them. For my kitchen knife with the sharp edge by your finger, I ground it down so the knife doesn't bite (a design flaw according to Knives Illustrated or Blade that is now fixed). For my matriarch which is perfect, except for a misaligned lock and tang...I thank god it's perfectly functional and doesn't need repair.

But then, the above is the "worst possible interpetation" of the facts of my experience with spyderco. Believe the happy talk, just don't be suprised if you're disappointed.

 

[theoldawg]

It alsos appears that virtually no Spyderco customers are disappointed in these changes.

Right on! I am not.... Spyderco always has provided a superior product; and service.

You buy a new car & do your own work on it ~ no problem; however, you take it to shop for repairs ~ you pay for it.

You buy a new knife & sharpen it yourself ~ no problem; however, you send it to shop/factory for sharpening ~ you pay for it.

That is the way this system works - I see no history that anyone with a legitimate warranty issue with Spyderco ever having to pay for it ` In my opinion, broken tips aren't legitimate warranty issues.

Sal & Spyderco have always provided great products and customer service; and have been very responsive to any concerns expressed on these forums.

They deserve better than the head-knocking they are taking on this thread

IMHO

 

[j.h]

It sucks to have to buy new tires.
sal

And thats really what it boils down to.

Spyderco has offered me excellent service, and I expect that will also be the case in the future if and when the need arises. One has to be reasonable though.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Snapped off tips used to be covered. It takes very little time to reprofile a tip...$20 is excessive, particularly for a $40 knife. Repairs due to design flaws used to be covered. Not any more.

I'm sure it take little time to reprofile a tip, however, it costs money to purchase grinders. Spyderco has to recoup this cost plus the loss of productivity while someone takes the time to fix your knife. The simple solution is to stop snapping the tips off your knife.

The second case my tip was reprofiled since it broke off, I wanted the blade replaced, but spyderco doesn't stock blades for Japanese knives. It was reprofiled for free, but I got a letter telling me it wouldn't ever be free again. Their policy had changed. I believe the tip broke due to inappropriate tip geometry for the steel type... a design flaw.

I don't think that you, me or anyone else here except Sal is in any position to make a relevent statement concerning Spyderco's tip geometry or steel choice.

The third case my clip tore out of my Jot, they wouldn't repair the knive by simpling tapping the screw into the existing liner. They told me they don't repair knives, only replace them. They replaced the knife with another, but wouldn't return the Jot, even though it was still functional as a clipless knife. They wouldn't say why...just no new knife unless spyderco keeps the old.

Let me get this straight...you return a knife and they send you a replacement. You now want BOTH knives back? It doesn't work like that. It's not a two for one special.

The bottom line is that Spyderco is NOT charging for sharpening; they are charging to repair abuse.

 

[srtungate]

Service, everywhere, isn't what it use to be, times change!

I'm sure it take little time to reprofile a tip, however, it costs money to purchase grinders. Spyderco has to recoup this cost plus the loss of productivity while someone takes the time to fix your knife.

Every knife purchased includes a small cost factor that covers this, warranty. When you purchase an item, that item contains all the possible factors involved in manufactoring, marketing, etc.

The effective businessman balances out all these factors.

As stated before, if they receive a high number of second hand/used blades requiring refurbishing who should absorb the cost?

 

[martin j]

Well the official response was a slick avoidance of the presented examples with a few well turned phrases on other topics (tires?) to misdirect attention. However, from the official response, there is an implicit admission that what was once free is now a charge item. A $20 fee for sharpening and taking out some dings for what was once free is now acceptable for a $40 knife (pretty high price for <15 min work). One can also gather that although Spyderco now charges for repairs, they are not going to offer a true repair service like some other companies (e.g. stock replacment parts for discontinued or Japanese knives).

It is also implied that knife replacements for design failures can and will be discontinued, even though the problem is still a design defect (e.g. the Jot clip, or failed integral clips). It is also implied that it must now be policy to keep the warranty hidden from customers since knives are now provided without warranty slips or catalogs with the warranty info (e.g. my recently received knife from SFO.) It alsos appears that virtually no Spyderco customers are disappointed in these changes.

Well you seem disappointed
I think Snow said it best, service was nice while it lasted, however times change and sometimes party has to come to end.
I bet Sal cares about your opinion, he isn't changing co. policy because he stopped caring or to 'screw the little guy"- if so he wouldn't take time posting here himself. You seem to prefere holding Spyderco to letter of policy over spirit of thier customer service, you demand widest possible interpretation and flexibility in policy for end user without consideration why THEY might need to change policy. Is this your right, of course- but it is also small minded in my oppinion. In bigger picture of American economy Spyderco is not big anonymous corporation just looking for profit, if so I assure you their warranty would be written in narrowest possible terms with no "wiggle room" for interpretation by end user, and their product quality would have dived long ago. ( Just compare to other co's policies and production)
I think difference is for you, thier change in policy reads like abandoning of care for customer, for most of us the change looks like Spyderco needing to face up to economic realities while still trying to live up to SPIRIT of old fashion customer service. I think most of us have different view from you not becuase we are "suckers" or we are naive but because we still believe Spyderco IN SPIRIT still respects customer and goes as far as they can in providing service. It is not always easy for modest size company to reflect this in policy/ waranty language. Again if they abandoned their commitment to quality and SPIRIT of customer service, I'm sure they would be able to pay lawyers to rewrite their policies to satisfy your desire for precise language reflecting precise policy......... but ultimately at expense of us all as end users.
Perhaps I have different view because I immigrated here later in life, my daughter and I have been taken advantage of so I know " cost" of being naive and I have pretty good sense of what people who "try to get over on you" look like. There are plenty of rats out there, but Spyderco does not "smell like a rat" to me. Just my humble opinion
Martin

 

[Starfish]

Well you seem disappointed
I think Snow said it best, service was nice while it lasted, however times change and sometimes party has to come to end.
I bet Sal cares about your opinion, he isn't changing co. policy because he stopped caring or to 'screw the little guy"- if so he wouldn't take time posting here himself. You seem to prefere holding Spyderco to letter of policy over spirit of thier customer service, you demand widest possible interpretation and flexibility in policy for end user without consideration why THEY might need to change policy. Is this your right, of course- but it is also small minded in my oppinion. In bigger picture of American economy Spyderco is not big anonymous corporation just looking for profit, if so I assure you their warranty would be written in narrowest possible terms with no "wiggle room" for interpretation by end user, and their product quality would have dived long ago. ( Just compare to other co's policies and production)
I think difference is for you, thier change in policy reads like abandoning of care for customer, for most of us the change looks like Spyderco needing to face up to economic realities while still trying to live up to SPIRIT of old fashion customer service. I think most of us have different view from you not becuase we are "suckers" or we are naive but because we still believe Spyderco IN SPIRIT still respects customer and goes as far as they can in providing service. It is not always easy for modest size company to reflect this in policy/ waranty language. Again if they abandoned their commitment to quality and SPIRIT of customer service, I'm sure they would be able to pay lawyers to rewrite their policies to satisfy your desire for precise language reflecting precise policy......... but ultimately at expense of us all as end users.
Perhaps I have different view because I immigrated here later in life, my daughter and I have been taken advantage of so I know " cost" of being naive and I have pretty good sense of what people who "try to get over on you" look like. There are plenty of rats out there, but Spyderco does not "smell like a rat" to me. Just my humble opinion
Martin

Well said!

Matthew

 

[brownshoe]

I agree with you Martin J to some extent. However I see this change as a loss of "spirit" for Spyderco. That's why I find it disappointing, plus I am intimately familiar with their product, thus I know that their knives are not free of defects. Times change, but my warranty for my 1999 knife still exists, and I believe that spyderco should honor it...remember the fair and honest statements in their literature? They can change their policy for current production, but I don't think it's fair to make it retroactive.

I also don't think their repair policy is fair. Here it is from the website:

For the following repairs, please include $20.00 plus $5.00 shipping and handling:

Blade or Edge -- broken tip from prying or dropping, destroyed edge due to improper sharpening, loose blade from abuse, rust due to neglect or other blade issues. (Spyderco is unable to replace blades in most models)

Clips -- stripped screw holes, screws sheered off, broken or missing clip or other clip issues.

Scale or Handle -- missing scale screws, knife action stiff, missing Kraton, or other handle issues.

So, $20 for a 5-min tip reprofile is fair? $20 for the 1-min it takes to replace a screw is fair? If the screw falls out or the Kraton comes off, isn't this a failure in the workmanship, materials or design? I don't think this is in the "spirit" of the old spyderco.

 

[wsyocum]

I agree with you Martin J to some extent. However I see this change as a loss of "spirit" for Spyderco. That's why I find it disappointing, plus I am intimately familiar with their product, thus I know that their knives are not free of defects. Times change, but my warranty for my 1999 knife still exists, and I believe that spyderco should honor it...remember the fair and honest statements in their literature? They can change their policy for current production, but I don't think it's fair to make it retroactive.

I also don't think their repair policy is fair. Here it is from the website:

For the following repairs, please include $20.00 plus $5.00 shipping and handling:

Blade or Edge -- broken tip from prying or dropping, destroyed edge due to improper sharpening, loose blade from abuse, rust due to neglect or other blade issues. (Spyderco is unable to replace blades in most models)

Clips -- stripped screw holes, screws sheered off, broken or missing clip or other clip issues.

Scale or Handle -- missing scale screws, knife action stiff, missing Kraton, or other handle issues.

So, $20 for a 5-min tip reprofile is fair? $20 for the 1-min it takes to replace a screw is fair? If the screw falls out or the Kraton comes off, isn't this a failure in the workmanship, materials or design? I don't think this is in the "spirit" of the old spyderco.

Brownshoe,

If only it were that easy. Just take a look at what all is involved in a "simple tip reprofile."

-A person opens the package and reads the note/explanation of what must be done.
-Said person transfers the knife to the proper person to reprofile the tip...assuming the note was clear and concise.
-Reprofiler must also assess the situation, via customers note or from a "tag" placed on the package explaining the procedure to be performed.
-This person must reprofile the knife.
-This person must transfer the knife back to whomever is responsible for returning it to the customer.
The shipping person must repackage the knife and facilitate delivery to the customer.
-Somehow, all of this must be properly logged and tracked to ensure a timely service and return...this usually involves a computer and the last I checked, computer folks don't work cheap.
-Sharpening materials, office supplies and 'wear and tear" on equipment must be accounted for in the equation somewhere.

Add all these things up and I'm not sure how you can call $20 for this service unreasonable...oh yeah...and the company needs to make just a little profit in order to survive. Of course, this is all assuming that the problem was created via customers negligence.

If I break the tip off of my knife and I am not skilled enough to personally repair it, I would consider $20 a bargain to have the manufacturer do it. I don't care if it's just a $40 knife...I can't use it properly until it is fixed...so, heck, my only alternative is to buy another $40 knife. Hmmm, the $20 fee seems a little more reasonable now...doesn't it?