It's a CopyCat World...

lava_lamp said:
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3Guardsmen said:
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Hey Boker, you got some 'splaining to do.
 
never too sharp said:
Hey Boker, you got some 'splaining to do.
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As I understand it, the Lum design predated either. I wonder...

So did SOG copy the Lum, and then Boker copied the SOG?
Or, did Boker copy the Lum, and then SOG copied the Boker?
Or, did Boker and SOG each independently copy the Lum?
Or, did Boker and SOG come up with each design without having seen the Lum - coincidental serendipity?
 
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Hey Bob Lum, you got some 'splaining to do! ;)

It looks like whichever was first between SOG and Boker was inspired (:rolleyes:) by the Lum design. The other ripped off the rip-off. Or maybe it was licensed, or made in the same asian factory, I don't know. To be fair, the Boker Jetstream is an aluminum handled liner lock vs. The Umnum's titanium and ceramic RIL. Umnumzaan > Jetstream. Umnumzaan < Jetfire.
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As a end user of a product I don't really care if it's a knock-off or not. As long as the product in question is what I consider to be good quality at a fair price I'm good to go.

If the maker/designer don't trademark it and/or protect their design it's their tough luck when another company knock's it off.

We live in a dog eat dog world in the end and things are tough all over.
 
lava_lamp said:
Come now, it's like the US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's description of pornography: "I know it when I see it." If we took a poll, I have no doubt that a large majority of people here on this board would think it's a copy. If we polled among the less-discerning (non-knife people) population, it would be nearly unanimous.

Note the pivot bolt - fairly unique to both of these knives yet similar to one another. Note the cross-hatched grooves - particularly the angle to the handle and the squares created and the bevel of the grooves. Again, fairly unique and yet eerily similar. Note the color and texture of the handles and the general shape. You put it all together and it screams copy. Maybe not an exact clone that would result in a lawsuit from CRK, but a copy nonetheless.

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You're going to far.
If I see the Böker I'm not thinking CRK

What do they have in common

A pivot bolt ?(this sort of pivot turns up in a lot of new models)
The angle of the grooves?
The color of the handle?

It isn't much.

It has even a liner lock !!!!
 
You make an excellent point Lava Lamp. The recent hysterical attacks on Sog for 'copying' were ludicrous. There seems to be a large segment of members on this forum who love to attack companies that make products that are actually affordable. Maybe it's because they've spent so much money on expensive knives, they're now compelled to attack, perfectly good but cheaper products ,as garbage, to justify their huge outlays.
 
I made that Youtube video about the Jetstream. Yes, I agree (and said so in my clip) that there is a SUPERFICIAL resemblance with the Umnumzaan but I would say that it doesn't look more like a Umnumzaan than the Bradley Alias looks like a Sebenza.
In fact the Jetstream is one of a 140 piece limited series, and it's in fact a variant of the older Böker Typhoon which is already a few years out of production. The Leo Damast 2 variant is still available.
So, the complete design of this knife, except for the handle finish is already a few years old. The liner lock and the aluminium handle are part of the original design as well and these are different approaches than the CRK.
This limited version now has grooves in the handle instead of an inlay. The grooves are a different pattern, and there are more knives with grooves in the handle.
In short, I don't see an issue.
 
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Larry Turko said:
You make an excellent point Lava Lamp. The recent hysterical attacks on Sog for 'copying' were ludicrous. There seems to be a large segment of members on this forum who love to attack companies that make products that are actually affordable. Maybe it's because they've spent so much money on expensive knives, they're now compelled to attack, perfectly good but cheaper products ,as garbage, to justify their huge outlays.
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This simply looks like a personal attack due a matter of difference of opinion to justify one's position.
 
Dagon said:
I made that Youtube video about the Jetstream. Yes, I agree (and said so in my clip) that there is a SUPERFICIAL resemblance with the Umnumzaan but I would say that it doesn't look more like a Umnumzaan than the Bradley Alias looks like a Sebenza.
In fact the Jetstream is one of a 140 piece limited series, and it's in fact a variant of the older Böker Typhoon which is already a few years out of production. The Leo Damast 2 variant is still available.
So, the complete design of this knife, except for the handle finish is already a few years old. The liner lock and the aluminium handle are part of the original design as well and these are different approaches than the CRK.
This limited version now has grooves in the handle instead of an inlay. The grooves are a different pattern, and there are more knives with grooves in the handle.
In short, I don't see an issue.
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When I started this thread, it wasn't to find fault. I was, and continue to be, intrigued by the similarity -- superficial and otherwise -- of designs and of the heated feelings they can generate. I thought comparing a few designs from respected manufacturers might generate some interesting discussion. I think it has to some degree.

In reference to your specific comments: first, thank you for sharing your videos. I haven't held a JetStream and am unlikely to have an opportunity to do so.

Your reference to the Bradley is interesting. I actually think the Bradley is less like a Sebenza than most people seem to. The blade shapes are very different and the shape of the handle is different, as well. The materials and colors are the same, though, including the blue anodizing. To me, this serves to underscore the way we all see things a little differently.
 
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lava_lamp said:
Thanks for posting the review. With respect, I guess we're not going to agree. The YouTube video makes it look even more like an Unum to me.
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It would be very sad and boring world if we all have the same opinion on everything :)
 
Knife Outlet said:
Not really. Both are the same company. Victorinox owns Wenger.
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So? they've both been making the same knife long before victorinox bought wenger.

but then, they are (sorry, where untill a couple of years ago) both producing them for the same contract, and are sort of joint holders of the swiss army knife design in general.
 
Ok about copycat :)

Does the new Schrade company has some interesting models? ;)
 
3Guardsmen said:
A Spyderco that looks like a Benchmade that uses a Spyderco hole! I can imagine there'd be a bit of a resemblance.:D



It reminds me of the guy that said the SpyKer (Spyderco/Kershaw/Ken Onion collaboration) was just a knockoff of the Benchmade Skirmish,
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failing to realize that Skirmish used features that were registered trademarks of both Spyderco and Ken Onion respectively.;)
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Until I read your post I thought the OP was joking...
 
"everything has been done before so its ok if I do it too" is a crappy excuse for a lack of originality.

if you want to lie to yourself and pretend like stealing other people's designs is cool just because other people do it fine, I cant stop you. just dont look for me when its time for the village bridge jumping.
 
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