It's hell being a liner lock

[Habeas Corpus]

Since I grew up with slipjoints and still carry them quite a bit, I've got pretty careful habits and I never really fully trust any folder. So far, it's worked, I still have all my fingers. I've also resolved not to buy any more liner locks.

I also grew up with slipjoints (and a fixed blade), but I haven't been so lucky.

My first locking folders were lockbacks, the venerable Buck 110 and 112, and they were very reliable, no matter what I did to them. And I sure used them for doing things I'd never do with a folder today. Later I bought a few liner lock folders, all of them from reputable manufacturers. I thought at the time liner locks were cool, the knives were cool, and they were quite a bit lighter than my Bucks. However, I had a couple of lock failures that made me change my mind.

I was lucky the first time when a liner lock failed while I was cutting up a big cardboard box. Just a shallow cut, that was it. The second time I spent a couple of rather unpleasant hours in hospital to get my fingers stitched. That time I had been cutting back a couple of small bushes on a trail in a local nature reserve. There was no spine whacking, nothing, the knife got stuck in a thick branch, and when I tried to free it the lock failed and the knife closed.

Since then I've been pretty careful with liner locks. Liner locks are apparently very difficult to get right consistently, disregarding for a moment that even well made liner locks *may* fail, for instance when the lock geometry changes through wear and tear. Today I'm not prepared to take chances anymore. Why should I use folders with a type of lock that failed on me twice, resulting in a nasty injury? There are other, more reliable types of lock about.

That said, I don't doubt there are some makers about whose liner locks are safe. I handled a couple of custom folders recently that will probably be able to handle anything you throw at them. But these are - despite their rather small size - pretty heavy folders with an extremely solid construction. I doubt torquing would have *any* effect on these folders. But because of their weight I wouldn't want to carry them for any length of time.

And if someone thinks liner locks are fine power to them. I usually tell people who ask me what they should buy about my worries about liner locks, but in the end everyone has to decide by himself what type of lock suits him best.

Hans

 

[Lil Timmy]

Relax, the coalition thing was just a joke. I keep trying to tell folks. I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on breaking knives. Anyone who wants can send me their liner locks for testing, or more obviously, repeat my tests and post your results. I'm only trying to find the truth. My experience with liner locks was different than this board's, so I wanted to find out. I found out.

I don't have a position, by the way. I have my results, they speak for themselves. Had the lock failed, I'd be talking an entirely different story.
Furthermore, I don't care if your liner lock sucks. Mine is stronger than my lockbacks. I want my knives to be tough. You guys are smart enough to buy and use whatever you'd like.

The book is closed. The testing is done, as best as it can be (without tons of money for more knives). I did exactly what people told me would make my knife fail. They were wrong.

My concern is that so many people are so biased. It's almost as if they have something personal to gain from discrediting liner locks. If nothing else, let this test prove to you that at least some liner locks are extremely strong. I would not try these tests with most of my lock backs (the ones that fail on me). Except for the 560C. That thing's a monster.

I wish there was some way I could lock this topic. This post-testing discussion isn't going anywhere. Just let the review stand, I don't want to talk about this anymore--it boils down to this "this lock is okay" (one side) "no it's not" (other side). That doesn't get us anywhere, so seriously, let the post die. I don't want to delete so future people can search and benefit from my testing. I know that my comments like "it feels like so many people are biased" etc are just begging for some kind of defense response, but let it go. Moderators, can you guys just close this one up without deleting it?

You played around with your knife, and couldn't (or just chose not to) make the lock fail. You proved absolutely nothing. Why is it that you think so many people don't like/trust liner-locks? Do you really think that they just decided one day that this type of lock is no good. Or could it be that through experience and real world use they found that liner locks can and do fail.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on breaking knives.

Neither does Joe, or Steve, or any of the other guys, that is why it typically took them a long time before they came to a solid opinion as they were buying knives to use not just to test.

...repeat my tests and post your results.

They have, for over ten years now. That is just as long as I have been reading, Joe was doing it before that.

My experience with liner locks was different than this board's...

No it isn't. As I said in the above Joe has described lots of liner locks in the past which were very stable and strong. You keep arguing a point which no one is contending as if you were a voice shouting in the darkness which in fact you are reading from a scripture which is well known.

Is your work of value, of course, it adds to the arguement that when liners are made correct and well executed they can be very strong and stable upon NIB evaluation. Now use the knife for a year or so and repeat it all and then you can comment on long term use.

Keep doing the work on each new lock you buy, liner or otherwise and you will build up a very useful bank of knowledge for both yourself and the net community as a whole. Realize of course that as you are doing this Joe, Steve and others are doing it as well.

Instead of being adversial, claiming biases and so on, just present your information so people can make what they will of it. Thus it becomes part of the library of work, so people can read your work, Joe's, Steve's and everyone else's.

Obviously you have to realize that even if you have mainly positive experiences (or even all of them) and a number of people have the opposite, it doesn't speak well for the lock when taken in general.

My concern is that so many people are so biased.

... and here you go again with the personal statements.

It's almost as if they have something personal to gain from discrediting liner locks.

Or maybe they have seen them fail often enough to reach a negative conclusion on stability.

...can find fault in the testing procedures done but that is an issue already discussed.

Yes, it tested strength which was never one of the argued weak points, stablity is the problem.

Of course they have their place, the liner obviously lead to the compression for example.

-Cliff

 

[Artfully Martial]

I've made a slight revision to update a small safety benefit of the flipper design that happens to be on my liner lock (definitely not on all of them).

I've also added a link to another person who has repeated my tests with his liner lock.