It's here!!!! FK Destruction Video!!!

sfrigon1 said:
Why did the tip break so easily ? Would that happen with any knife in 3v ?
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Lol. Leverage, previous stress. If the tip is 1/2-5/8 in wood and you are levering it on a point 1-2inches back you are putting a fucking ton of force on the tip. Totally different from having the tip 1/2-5/8 in wood and prying off that shoulder.
And like was stated 61.5 rc does not flex like 58,59,60.
That did not break easy.
When I had a FK I ran the tip pretty hard to get a idea how thin I maybe could go on 3V and it would survive much more not using a lever type action. And probably previos stressing.
I broke a plain jane cpm3V rc62 knife I made in half 0.200 thick after having flex it multiple time past45' and other task relativly easy battoning frozen maple.
 
timichango said:
My Ambush alpha has what I'd describe as a totally indestructable tip - it's REALLY thick, and I've done heavy prying with it with impunity.

Damn knife didn't cut terribly well, though. Had to regrind most of the primary bevel up to the belly to get it to slice even reasonably well. It's what I'd call a low performance knife without modifying it.

Can't wait to get my paws on my CPK - I'd much rather have a tough knife that can cut like a demon, than an indestructible knife that can not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I made a video about the alpha stating the tip would not break only cause of how thick it was but also cause you would need a fucking sludge hammer it get the tip to dig into wood. That knife is garbagio in my opinion.
 
sfrigon1 said:
Thanks ,you know I used to tell my girlfriend someday I'm gonna find a friend that likes knives too and to find this forum is like having a thousand friends that I can talk to I feel privileged to be here
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well said, and nice recovery. You have potential :)
 
gsx-rboy750 said:
I made a video about the alpha stating the tip would not break only cause of how thick it was but also cause you would need a fucking sludge hammer it get the tip to dig into wood. That knife is garbagio in my opinion.
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Ah! You must be Pierre :) Saw that video. Definitely agree with a lot of the criticism of the knife — it's a design that seems to superficially resemble more functional knives (notably the SK stuff — generally similar design), but kinda misses the mark on some key details. Also, the grind on mine was super chunky and uneven. I really should have sent it back to knivesshipfree for a refund, but needed some good sharpening stones anyways, and it gave me an excuse to buy'em and regrind the thing.

I think the tip's overbuilt/too thick for sure, mostly owing to the fact that it seems like the main taper at the tip is simply the continuation of the primary bevel, but without any real overall stock tapering along the spine from the handle forward. Mine does go through materials just fine, but definitely doesn't get the same penetration on dense materials (ie. wood) as a pointier profile does.

Mostly keeping mine as a glovebox beater at this point — it has better than average ergos, and with a tuned up grind it does what it needs to do just fine, but it's not a terribly special knife. I can definitely see why the Ambush project sorta flopped, and wound up getting discounted so heavily. I'd be bummed if I'd paid anywhere near the original price for mine.

All of which is why I now find myself on a Carothers sub-forum, ogling better knives :)
 
timichango said:
Ah! You must be Pierre :) Saw that video. Definitely agree with a lot of the criticism of the knife — it's a design that seems to superficially resemble more functional knives (notably the SK stuff — generally similar design), but kinda misses the mark on some key details. Also, the grind on mine was super chunky and uneven. I really should have sent it back to knivesshipfree for a refund, but needed some good sharpening stones anyways, and it gave me an excuse to buy'em and regrind the thing.

I think the tip's overbuilt/too thick for sure, mostly owing to the fact that it seems like the main taper at the tip is simply the continuation of the primary bevel, but without any real overall stock tapering along the spine from the handle forward. Mine does go through materials just fine, but definitely doesn't get the same penetration on dense materials (ie. wood) as a pointier profile does.

Mostly keeping mine as a glovebox beater at this point — it has better than average ergos, and with a tuned up grind it does what it needs to do just fine, but it's not a terribly special knife. I can definitely see why the Ambush project sorta flopped, and wound up getting discounted so heavily. I'd be bummed if I'd paid anywhere near the original price for mine.

All of which is why I now find myself on a Carothers sub-forum, ogling better knives :)
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Ya people did not like that video. Honestly I as far a usable and quality of 3V you wont get better then Carothers. Only reason I sold mine was cause a friend wanted on and the other was too pretty. I am IMO rougher then most people on stuff and if I ever buy a knife again it will probably be another Carothers.

that Apha ambush is everything 3V should not be. Counter the Carothers geometry, heat treat and ergos are everything a knife in 3V should be.
I hope these dont turn into safe queens like the SK have somewhat become.
I should post pics of the one I sold my friend (not a knife forums dude but rather a pure user) i went over there and it was covered in peanut butter, underneat are scrathes, use marks, etc but no rust. He uses it for everything and beats on it like the knife deserves. If I ever get extra funds I am getting a light chopper to keep and use and wont sell it.
 
Comparison tip pics FK , SK!
As Nathan stated the FK was designed to be a slicer , which it slices and does finer tasks much better than either of these two . But the SK! can sure take a beating . I am totally confident the CPK FK can do any task I could throw at it .
EvFfu3j.jpg

eOnXHop.jpg
 
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sfrigon1 said:
Sorry to all just joined and I obviously don't know what my words are potentially causing I have to think about what I type before I type hope that I didn't screw anyone over
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It's a mistake many of us have made, writing too fast. Not a big deal. I hope you stick around and learn more about CPK and the knife industry in general.

Think of an analogy, would you go into a sport car forum and tell someone their sport car sucks because it can't drive up a curb like a truck can? Or would you say the truck sucks because it can't corner as fast as the sports car?

Probably not! Knife designs have massive differences in both design and application just like vehicles.

Nathan designs performance knives, in that they are made to perform as knives. The general consensus is that the FK held up MUCH better than many expected based on it's design. It's a knife, not a pry bar like some other brands who make sharpened pry bars which have a secondary function as knives. Generally their cutting performance is consistent with their design.
 
gsx-rboy750 said:
Ya people did not like that video.
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I liked it :)

It actually helped articulate some of the issues I had with the knife when I first got it. Ultimately I managed to turn it into a performant knife, for my uses, but it's the first time I've been so conflicted about a piece of cutlery: feels great in the hand, and it was very pretty out of the box, but the thing that mattered the most (the cutting geometry) was just severely lacking. There's just no damned reason for anything in 3V to be that obtuse.

Bringing this back around to CPK: my field knife literally just showed up an hour ago, and it's a really interesting contrast. In a lot of ways they're pretty similar but the FK puts similar ergos (the handle profile is very similar) and ostensibly comparable (actually more) functionality into a more refined and considered and compact package. I haven't had the opportunity to use it yet, but I can assert that the Field Knife seems like what you'd get if you put the alpha on a diet and a strict martial arts training regimen: it's trimmer, slimmer, and more focused in all the right places, while in all likelihood being equally tough in all the ways that matter.

Anyways, I'll refrain from saying more until I've had an actual chance to use the thing, but man I'm impressed so far.
 
jjweb said:
Comparison tip pics FK , SK!
As Nathan stated the FK was designed to be a slicer , which it slices and does finer tasks much better than either of these two . But the SK! can sure take a beating . I am totally confident the CPK FK can do any task I could throw at it .
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh jj. I hate to do this but I have to.

I CAN'T HELP IT!

I would guess, that if you took that 4.7, secured say 1/2 the blade, and then bent it over till it fractured, it would require less for to do so than the FK despite the FK being thinner.

This is because of the choil. You will see Nathan has a radius, actually 2 of them in there. Look at the 4.7 now.

Does it remind you of this?

tearhere.jpg


Why do I bring this up? We're talking about failure here. Because Nathan is a Machinst and a Knifemaker who understand cross-sectional transitions while Guy is a "designer". Just go back and look at his bend test on the LC, the fuller... is that not a A+ in demonstrating he has a solid understanding of Young's modulus? Look at that 4.7, where is the neutral plane in it if you try and bend it over with a 36" pipe or whatever it was. It's begging to be broken.

I've actually hammered a LC into a cherry tree and stood, then bounced on the handle and it didn't break. Nathan has this down.

One being thicker doesn't make it stronger, or better able to withstand certain forces. Sure the tip is thicker, but is there a single legitimate need for an insanely thick tip like this? Certainly it's not carving. There has to be a reasonable limit to the thickness and geometry at some point, and currently I think the market is WAY past reasonable. Some of these knives don't even cut, they split. It's ridiculous.

But hey, what do I know? Not much!
 
jjweb said:
Comparison tip pics FK , SK!
As Nathan stated the FK was designed to be a slicer , which it slices and does finer tasks much better than either of these two . But the SK! can sure take a beating . I am totally confident the CPK FK can do any task I could throw at it .
EvFfu3j.jpg

eOnXHop.jpg
Click to expand...

I need to get an FK asap.
 
JustinFournier said:
This is because of the choil. You will see Nathan has a radius, actually 2 of them in there. Look at the 4.7 now.

Does it remind you of this?

tearhere.jpg


Why do I bring this up? We're talking about failure here. Because Nathan is a Machinst and a Knifemaker who understand cross-sectional transitions while Guy is a "designer". Just go back and look at his bend test on the LC, the fuller... is that not a A+ in demonstrating he has a solid understanding of Young's modulus? Look at that 4.7, where is the neutral plane in it if you try and bend it over with a 36" pipe or whatever it was. It's begging to be broken.

I've actually hammered a LC into a cherry tree and stood, then bounced on the handle and it didn't break. !
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My dad was a engineer (back in the day think real engineer blie prints, missle launcher gear drive systems etc for Falk) one thing he stressed to me was fucking stress risers for some fucking reason. For my hobby knife making I dont put a sharpening choil, divit whatever cause they are stress risers cause I know I am going to do some stupid shit. The point you make of design vs engineering is a fantastic one. The thickest toughest piece of metal is nothing with a knotch in the wrong or right place. Meanwhile a weaker cheaper shitter piece of metal can have more done to it if not only no stress risers but some amount of flex or ability to flex design in. Its pretty clean from my rambling I am not my father or a engineer. Lol
 
gsx-rboy750 said:
My dad was a engineer (back in the day think real engineer blie prints, missle launcher gear drive systems etc for Falk) one thing he stressed to me was fucking stress risers for some fucking reason. For my hobby knife making I dont put a sharpening choil, divit whatever cause they are stress risers cause I know I am going to do some stupid shit. The point you make of design vs engineering is a fantastic one. The thickest toughest piece of metal is nothing with a knotch in the wrong or right place. Meanwhile a weaker cheaper shitter piece of metal can have more done to it if not only no stress risers but some amount of flex or ability to flex design in. Its pretty clean from my rambling I am not my father or a engineer. Lol
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I get what you are saying, perfectly clear! I tried to use a pic to explain it simply, I'm not a knifemaker, designer, or anything.

You should have my email, the guy whom you sold your vintage Fk to is a mutual friend of ours. He can get it to you if you lost it.
 
JustinFournier said:
Ahhhhh jj. I hate to do this but I have to.

I CAN'T HELP IT!

I would guess, that if you took that 4.7, secured say 1/2 the blade, and then bent it over till it fractured, it would require less for to do so than the FK despite the FK being thinner.

This is because of the choil. You will see Nathan has a radius, actually 2 of them in there. Look at the 4.7 now.

Does it remind you of this?

tearhere.jpg


Why do I bring this up? We're talking about failure here. Because Nathan is a Machinst and a Knifemaker who understand cross-sectional transitions while Guy is a "designer". Just go back and look at his bend test on the LC, the fuller... is that not a A+ in demonstrating he has a solid understanding of Young's modulus? Look at that 4.7, where is the neutral plane in it if you try and bend it over with a 36" pipe or whatever it was. It's begging to be broken.

I've actually hammered a LC into a cherry tree and stood, then bounced on the handle and it didn't break. Nathan has this down.

One being thicker doesn't make it stronger, or better able to withstand certain forces. Sure the tip is thicker, but is there a single legitimate need for an insanely thick tip like this? Certainly it's not carving. There has to be a reasonable limit to the thickness and geometry at some point, and currently I think the market is WAY past reasonable. Some of these knives don't even cut, they split. It's ridiculous.

But hey, what do I know? Not much!
Click to expand...



I've seen more than one nicely radiused plunge line — I forget who the maker was, but I just the other day saw a video where a maker was grinding one with a contact wheel that had a radiused edge to allow him to lean the belt into the plunge to accomplish the same thing.

I've also heard it espoused that it removes a potential stress riser, and thus makes the knife less likely to snap at the plunge line under lateral stress. Seems like a solid assertion, in concept.

The question it leaves me with, though, is: how many knives are, in actuality, failing at the plunge line?

I'd imagine that it's a kind of breakage that comes up under very specific (and arguably extreme) use contexts, and is probably a lot less common than other failure modes (eg. gross fracturing from the edge into the primary bevel). Is it a nice belt-and-suspenders engineering feature? Sure. Looks nice too. I'd be hesitant to assert that it'd be the sole or primary arbiter of whether one blade would be more prone to failure than another, though, even in the same material and stock thickness and heat treat.

Not saying it's not possible, or that knives don't break at the plunge line (I'm sure they do), but in a thick knife in 3V, with the same high-end proprietary heat treat, how likely is it that you're going to be snapping it, radiused plunge or not?

Just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion :)
 
JustinFournier said:
Get on it if you can! It's my favorite knife of all time, love it.
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I knew I should've bought one months ago when they lasted longer than 10 seconds on here! Hopefully I'll be able to snag one from the exchange or anyone looking to let go of one.
One of these paired up with a GB small forest axe would be a great combo. Plus I bet it would make some killer trysticks.
 
JustinFournier said:
I get what you are saying, perfectly clear! I tried to use a pic to explain it simply, I'm not a knifemaker, designer, or anything.

You should have my email, the guy whom you sold your vintage Fk to is a mutual friend of ours. He can get it to you if you lost it.
Click to expand...

I lost it. We were on FB and he is 200000 messages back.
 
timichango said:
I've seen more than one nicely radiused plunge line — I forget who the maker was, but I just the other day saw a video where a maker was grinding one with a contact wheel that had a radiused edge to allow him to lean the belt into the plunge to accomplish the same thing.

I've also heard it espoused that it removes a potential stress riser, and thus makes the knife less likely to snap at the plunge line under lateral stress. Seems like a solid assertion, in concept.

The question it leaves me with, though, is: how many knives are, in actuality, failing at the plunge line?

I'd imagine that it's a kind of breakage that comes up under very specific (and arguably extreme) use contexts, and is probably a lot less common than other failure modes (eg. gross fracturing from the edge into the primary bevel). Is it a nice belt-and-suspenders engineering feature? Sure. Looks nice too. I'd be hesitant to assert that it'd be the sole or primary arbiter of whether one blade would be more prone to failure than another, though, even in the same material and stock thickness and heat treat.

Not saying it's not possible, or that knives don't break at the plunge line (I'm sure they do), but in a thick knife in 3V, with the same high-end proprietary heat treat, how likely is it that you're going to be snapping it, radiused plunge or not?

Just playing devil's advocate for the sake of discussion :)
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His point and mine was if a knife will fail from flexing (life of death or fucking around) odds are 90-99% it will be in the middle of the knife at the knotch. A common metal test is a knotch test where they put a notch in a piece of metal, hit it, and 99% of the time it breaks at the notch. Unless you have previously exerted or internally damaged the steel. DING
this leads to that

naughty



jerks are making me miss this

and this


but not this
 
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