It's Official Cold Steel knocked off Brian Tighes design

The black talon IS licensed from sal. (well, gentleman's agreement) Normally, Lynn does things right when it comes to these things. Slipped this time. =/
 
The difference, NGK-W, is that Cold Steel was clearly trying to emulate a known design by a known maker without licensure or royalties. Just because the Spyderco is also upswept might make it similar, but not stolen. I understand the point you are making, but this is clearly a rip-off.

Jack
 
I have noticed surfing the forums over the years that there is a lot of bad feeling towards CS.

This partly seems to be because a lot of people don't seem to like LT's personal style of advertising. And yup I have seen the proof videos and the guy is very in your face, very opinionated etc.

However the "proof" videos are damn fine marketting and I am sure CS sells a lot of knives because of them. Theres no doubt confidence sells.

I have about 6 CS knives and I have got to say they have all been excellent. You can get them very cheap on ebay and the like. The steel is very good and the heat treat is fine. (AUS8, San Mai and Carbon V) I dont like the models where they are using 420SZ. But then there is definately a market for cheaper knives. To be fair I know a lot of people who really rate the Kobun in 420SZ.

The CS serrations are OK. Yup a bitch to resharpen but you can do it. And they do cut really well.

Looking at the two knives being talked about, I am sorry but OK there are definate similarities but there are also a hell of a lot of differences as well. You could compare the overall shape of these to the Schemp Persian or CS's own Scimitar or 100 other "similar" knives.

After all how many companies have completely ripped of the CS design for the Americanised Tanto ........... ?

You could just as easily compare the Russ Komer bear claw with the Emmerson La Griffe, with the Gil Hibben claw etc etc.......

Theres a lot of positive stuff about Fehrman knives on the forums but I would say they are very similar to some of Busse's designs. You don't seem to get people shouting "Ripoff" in this case.

I think whatever people think about LT personally and his advertising strategy its only fair to say he does a good product with a lot of fans.

To suggest CS is going to become bankrupt soon. I very much doubt it!
 
The handle looks slightly different to me, but the blades look pretty much the same. I don't know, I've owned about a half dozen Cold Steel knives, and they all didn't live up to the "hype". I've sold them and given them away saddly. I think a lot of people have been burned by Cold Steel. I personally think the Lynn guy seems like he knows his sh*t, and I don't really have any negative feelings about him since I've never met the man. For me it's mostly about quality, price, and customer service.

You guys are right though, almost all knives look similar to eachother in one way or another and I personally let my bad feelings about Cold Steel get in the way and I overlooked that fact.

Bottom line with me is I won't make the Cold Steel mistake again, been burned, learned my lesson.

All that being said, in the back of my mind I still want to try a Ti-Lite and Recon 1, but I just cannot bring myself to shell out any more money to them, makes me sad.
 
Actually, the Tighe Stick was out before the Chinook II. If you look at the Chinook I there's very little comparison because in the second edition Spyderco swept the top line of the blade out more instead of the "pug" look.

I'm disappointed CS made such a close copy of Tighe's blade design, I typically stick up for them because in the past when people got on them they ended having licensed the design.

I do agree that the handle is a somewhat substantial change given the extended and curved butt, lock back design and bolsters.

Tough call to make IMO, and for the people who don't like CS because of Lynn T I'm sure that's the swaying factor to call it a knock-off.

As others have said, there's no established definition of knock-off so it's a tough call to make and going to probably vary from person to person. The blade to me screams copy, but the overall knife is somewhat different.
 
I don't see what the big deal is. If I followed this line of thought I'd have to say that anyone making a Walker liner locking folder is a thief. Should all us liner lock folder makers feel guilty now for making what Mr. Walker designed originally? For that matter should all slip joint makers feel guilty for copying patterns sometimes older than they are? What about Scagel repros? Should these makers be boycotted too for expanding on an original idea?

Besides the above two cents worth, there are significant differences visually in the two knives you posted pics of. I'm sure side by side there are other less noticable differences in looks, features, steel, action, smoothness, and handling.

I don't think it is very fair to make Lynn Thompson stand out like he is the only one to do this type of knock off in the knife business. Look around. James Parker spent his life doing this and it didn't seem to stop him when people got mad or carried on like this thread.

It happens with everything from cars, boats, and planes, to something as small as a diamond sharpener. They have all been copied in the name of progress. Some of the later examples are sometimes actually improvements on the originals so it isn't always a bad thing.
 
Well, you can buy my share, I've even got some you can buy,too!

I think that alot of folks are sick of LT's abrasive rhetoric, and that his blatant copycat style of business is the camel's straw.

Never did think they lived up to his hype, and can't stand his whining.

:barf:


Thomas Zinn
 
Some designs are pretty standard and straight forward but I think that many custom makers have signature pieces and Mr. Tighes has been ripped off here.
I liked CS back in the 80s and carried a safekeeper II for a long time, but it seems they have crossed a line w/ this one.
 
STR said:
I don't think it is very fair to make Lynn Thompson stand out like he is the only one to do this type of knock off in the knife business.
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Good point.

Right now I think the worst company out there making knock-offs is Smith & Wesson knives.

Every time I see one of their POS copies of a custom makers work it makes me feel less fondly of my S&W wheel guns and question my willingness to ever buy more of their products. (as if them selling out the gun industry wasn't enough :))
 
Oh Gawd, don't get me started on the gun industry's feeble attempt in the knife trade. IMHO the onle company that marketed a really good knife was Ithaca when they did Track knives. Now, that was a Knife! :eek:


Thomas Zinn
 
I'm not going to stop buying Cold Steel when it suits me and I don't see this as a blatant knock off - merely a similar style.
 
Actually don't blame S&W. They lost the license to their own name when the company became 'British' owned. If I'm not mistaken the real culprit behind the S&W clones or copy cat stuff you are complaining about is Taylor Cutlery. As I recall they bought the rights to the S&W label and use it as a cover bascially. Much the same as Blue Grass cutlery has done with many knives they sell.

You can also see Gerber doing some of this under the table cover too, as the cheap Chinese made knives in Wal-Mart selling for just over 6 bucks with 'Winchester' stamped on them are nothing other than Chinese made Gerbers. I believe they are in bed with Blue Grass Cutlery on that deal. People see Winchester on those China made POS and immediately get a sour taste in their mouths toward anything Winchester. I've heard comments of "how could they sour that great American name liket that?" Believe me it isn't Winchester doing it. It isn't S&W either.

The old S&W and Winchester knives that were made in the USA are light years ahead of the cheap stuff bearing those labels on them today. When these companies were US owned and when they actually owned the rights to their own labels they wouldn't have the kind of disgrace going on like we see in knives bearing those names now.

So, be sure to place blame where it belongs.
 
What I don't like about this Black Sable, and the rest of the new CS folders, is the use of San Mai III. I understand the concept of sharpness/toughness with a laminated metal, but for $400, why not just use a single slab of steel that exhibits both sharpness and toughness, such as S30V, D2, etc??
 
One reason is that the warikomi steel sandwiches are quite easy to sharpen because the hard steel in the core is very thin. Another is that the exterior is very corrosion resistant because it is made from a low carbon stainless. I wouldn't consider D2 to be very corrosion resitant.
 
i'll still buy CS knives, as long as they have designs that interest me. for myself, it's pretty simple. buy the knives you are interested in, and avoid the ones that you dislike (for whatever reason). a knife like the one in question is going to be outside of the mainstream user's budget -- that leaves only the enthusiasts to buy it. if we don't, then that's it -- the knife gets retired due to lack of sales. vote with your dollars, CS will listen.

abe
 
STR said:
Actually don't blame S&W...
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I don't want to take the thread too far off track but I disagree on a couple of points.

We're talking knock-offs, not quality. Any company that owns the trademark has the ability to have it removed from a product, or not license it. What S&W is allowing their name to be put on are copycat products, regardless of who owns the company their damaging the name.

I have not seen a Winchester or Gerber knocking off designs. Discussing the quality issue or country of manufacture is another issue entirely.

And FWIW as the proud owner of several Blue Grass distributed Winchesters from the "good ole days" (late 80's), I would argue that these were some of the best quality production slips in the last 25-30 years.
 
I just thought I would comment on the side by side comparison pictured above. It shows the new version of Brian Tighe's Tighe Stick with the carved titanium scales. But if you compare the CS version to his standard model pictured below. The similarities become even more apparent.

(Picture borrowed from Moore Cutlery's site)
 
STR said:
The old S&W and Winchester knives that were made in the USA are light years ahead of the cheap stuff bearing those labels on them today. When these companies were US owned and when they actually owned the rights to their own labels they wouldn't have the kind of disgrace going on like we see in knives bearing those names now.

So, be sure to place blame where it belongs.
Click to expand...

Once upon a time, a Winchester knife was truly legend. Early Wins- say, pre-WW2- are among the best knives I've ever had a chance to handle. Ditto for the Remingtons of the same era. The recent "reissues" aren't even close. Nice knives, Rem, but a long way off.

As for the opening salvo, I'm not a fan of Cold Steel. Never have been. However, in this case, I can't see how they expected to get clear of this. There are "inspired" designs, and then there are rips. That one, blade and handle both, is a rip. For that, I see a boycott as completely reasonable.
 
normal_ripoff.jpg
 
I don't wish to get too far off track either but S&W does not own the license anymore. They just have to sit back and watch what gets done with the logo. That is my understanding of it anyway. The company has no say in what the owner of the license or rights to the name does with it.

And please don't take me wrong. I'm not saying that all other than USA made products are bad. Some of the CRKT stuff that is pretty much all made in Taiwan is quite high in quality. But I'm not trying to change the subject you are correct that that is another story entirely. My bad there.

And FWIW as the proud owner of several Blue Grass distributed Winchesters from the "good ole days" (late 80's), I would argue that these were some of the best quality production slips in the last 25-30 years.
Click to expand...

Yes. I hear you. Weren't these you speak of all USA made ones though?
 
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