- Joined
- Jan 10, 2004
- Messages
- 1,035
S30V does seem to vary. My Manix and Mili get screamin sharp. My Native and Ritter grip do not seem to be able to get as sharp. Probably because of the blade geometry.
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I've become a steel snob!
- Thread starter paulwesley
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
- Messages
- 2,662
I don't know about my evolution. I got started on knives by my grandfather with a Buck 110 in 440C. He knows a thing or two about knives, not the collector that I am and maybe not up on the latest super steels, but he knows what a quality knife is. That was important. He taught me to get the best I could afford, and if I coudln't afford the best, save my money.
Steel type is important. But it's limited. The knife has to have both good ergonomics and good geometry to cut. S30V alone won't cut it (pun intended). The knife has to feel good in the hand so that it is in a good position to make the cut, and it has to be ground correctly. A poorly designed knife in S30V is no better than a poorly designed knife in 420j2. And an exceptionally designed and executed 420j2 blade will be superior to that poorly designed S30V every time.
My EDC knives tend towards S30V, VG-10 and 440C. But I'll take Buck's 420HC without a second thought.
Steel is only part of what makes a knife a good tool.
Steel type is important. But it's limited. The knife has to have both good ergonomics and good geometry to cut. S30V alone won't cut it (pun intended). The knife has to feel good in the hand so that it is in a good position to make the cut, and it has to be ground correctly. A poorly designed knife in S30V is no better than a poorly designed knife in 420j2. And an exceptionally designed and executed 420j2 blade will be superior to that poorly designed S30V every time.
My EDC knives tend towards S30V, VG-10 and 440C. But I'll take Buck's 420HC without a second thought.
Steel is only part of what makes a knife a good tool.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
I went through it years ago and have moved past it. Good knife steel is good knife steel, and there are dozens of them.
Me, i like great steels an lower quality aswell.
Like someone else said, there are times for a lesser steel to be called into action, like removing gaskets ect.
I use a lower grade steel edge at work an save the good stuff for my personal cutting pleasures.
Peace
WR
Like someone else said, there are times for a lesser steel to be called into action, like removing gaskets ect.
I use a lower grade steel edge at work an save the good stuff for my personal cutting pleasures.
Peace
WR
I don't consider myself a "SteelHead". As I got older my knives got better because I could afford them. I always bought from quality companies and never worried about what kind of steel they used. If I live to be 100 I'll never know as much about knife steel as the current bunch of knifemakers.
I'm not trying to brag but I have never had a broken tip or blade. I would like to think that is because of great steel except it is that I only use my knives for cutting. I have much better tools for prying, chopping, etc.
Here is some interesting info I found about knife steels. It is geared more to the maker than the user but I thought it had some very interesting comparisons of various steels.
Many of the knife steels we use were originally designed for the production of jet engines running at 100,000 rpms in who knows how many degrees of heat. It is no wonder they work so well in knives.
If you want to win a bet with some of the "SteelHeads" bet them your dumb old 440-C blade has more chromium (for rust resistance) than their latest super-steel.
http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html
If you want to "feel" the differences in types of steel you have to get into "sharpening". It is amazing to me how different knives will sharpen and the feel of the steel when sharpening. There is a great link to knife sharpening in BladeForums written by knife maker Mr. Joe Talmadge. It is one of the best explanations of knives that I have ever read.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
Here is the sharpening forum link.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=794
I'm not trying to brag but I have never had a broken tip or blade. I would like to think that is because of great steel except it is that I only use my knives for cutting. I have much better tools for prying, chopping, etc.
Here is some interesting info I found about knife steels. It is geared more to the maker than the user but I thought it had some very interesting comparisons of various steels.
Many of the knife steels we use were originally designed for the production of jet engines running at 100,000 rpms in who knows how many degrees of heat. It is no wonder they work so well in knives.
If you want to win a bet with some of the "SteelHeads" bet them your dumb old 440-C blade has more chromium (for rust resistance) than their latest super-steel.
http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html
If you want to "feel" the differences in types of steel you have to get into "sharpening". It is amazing to me how different knives will sharpen and the feel of the steel when sharpening. There is a great link to knife sharpening in BladeForums written by knife maker Mr. Joe Talmadge. It is one of the best explanations of knives that I have ever read.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
Here is the sharpening forum link.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=794
I baught the new caly in ZDP189, i have also some knives in VG10 (and some in 154cm)...
Then last WE, i test my old doukdouk that was'nt in my EDC for months...
After 3 strokes on the wet stone, i could shave myself with...
Sure it won't hold an edge during years, but it's so fast to resharp it...
No need to say that "steel snobism" just decrease suddenly
Then last WE, i test my old doukdouk that was'nt in my EDC for months...
After 3 strokes on the wet stone, i could shave myself with...
Sure it won't hold an edge during years, but it's so fast to resharp it...
No need to say that "steel snobism" just decrease suddenly
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 3,536
I started out a steel snob, but now I'm a steel connoisseur and a geometry snob. Thin, preferably convexed, and with those two, I am happier with a SAK than the best S30V that is poorly ground.
I agree with some of the people here that every steel has its place. Or rather, sometimes it is better to use a cheap knife (which no doubt has a lower-end steel) that a knife with good steel (that is no doubt more expensive).
I take my best knives with me to work most of the time and have no problem using the heck out of my most expensive knives. But I also really like taking a cheapo knife with me to do some of the gunky work, or to lend out.
At my work, even a very cheap, dull knife will work. I only need to cut packing tape, plastic wrap, plastic straps, and such. So since a cheap knife can get the job done, it can be a good idea to use it instead since I would rather lose a CCC at work than my Mcusta. I'm really happy I have a variety of junker knives to use for work and dirty/gunky tasks.
I am into higher-end steel mainly for showing off and impressing myself. Showing someone how sharp your knife is can be fun. And it's pretty cool to cut something with a very sharp knife and just be blown away by how easy it cuts.
I take my best knives with me to work most of the time and have no problem using the heck out of my most expensive knives. But I also really like taking a cheapo knife with me to do some of the gunky work, or to lend out.
At my work, even a very cheap, dull knife will work. I only need to cut packing tape, plastic wrap, plastic straps, and such. So since a cheap knife can get the job done, it can be a good idea to use it instead since I would rather lose a CCC at work than my Mcusta. I'm really happy I have a variety of junker knives to use for work and dirty/gunky tasks.
I am into higher-end steel mainly for showing off and impressing myself. Showing someone how sharp your knife is can be fun. And it's pretty cool to cut something with a very sharp knife and just be blown away by how easy it cuts.
I found this thread while serarching for info on steels. I too am looking to rid myself of my crappy knives, and try to have only a few really good ones.
I have a couple with Aus-8 and that's it so far. But I am looking at the Ritter S30V.
Can you guys point mew to a comprehensive comparo on steels?
The last few months of Blade magazine have had some great charts, but there are a lot of steels not in there.
They did a stainless chart one month, and a high carbon chart another month.
I am looking for the same kind of data, but with more options and info.
Thanks in advance
I have a couple with Aus-8 and that's it so far. But I am looking at the Ritter S30V.
Can you guys point mew to a comprehensive comparo on steels?
The last few months of Blade magazine have had some great charts, but there are a lot of steels not in there.
They did a stainless chart one month, and a high carbon chart another month.
I am looking for the same kind of data, but with more options and info.
Thanks in advance
Ok, this is a dumb question, but I'm just learning about steel... in a form of metamorphasis so to speak...LOL! What is the difference between AUS-8 and AUS-6? I just bought the Syderco Endura, an older model with the AUS-6 SS I learned on another forum. This steel seems pretty good quality (shaves the hair off my arm, skin if I push too hard!), but now I understand the model has been upgraded?
Oh gosh, another "Steelhead".
Just remember that many of the steels used were made for uses other than knives. They were used for jet engine blades spinning at 100,000 rpm in very high temp environments. Or they were made for tools that were used to make other metal parts.
I think a good balance is important and while the steel in the blade is important the design of the knife with all its components is what really counts. There are some great knives available with non-stainless steel. Sure they take a little more oiling to prevent rust but they are very tough and hold a great edge.
440-C has one of the highest chromium contents which makes it very tough and stainless. Much depends on how all the various alloys are constructed and heat treated.
Here is what our resident expert, Mr. Joe Talmadge says about knives and steels.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
I have some knives that I like because they just fit my hand and do the tasks I need even if they are not made from the latest XYZ123 miracle steel.
Just remember that many of the steels used were made for uses other than knives. They were used for jet engine blades spinning at 100,000 rpm in very high temp environments. Or they were made for tools that were used to make other metal parts.
I think a good balance is important and while the steel in the blade is important the design of the knife with all its components is what really counts. There are some great knives available with non-stainless steel. Sure they take a little more oiling to prevent rust but they are very tough and hold a great edge.
440-C has one of the highest chromium contents which makes it very tough and stainless. Much depends on how all the various alloys are constructed and heat treated.
Here is what our resident expert, Mr. Joe Talmadge says about knives and steels.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828
I have some knives that I like because they just fit my hand and do the tasks I need even if they are not made from the latest XYZ123 miracle steel.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2005
- Messages
- 8,343
Sal Glesser said:Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.
A new junky developing tastes in steel.
sal
Are those dollar signs I see in your eyes? For shame, taking advantage of a poor drugged young lad! :thumbup:
Sal Glesser
Moderator
- Joined
- Dec 27, 1998
- Messages
- 11,681
I use super steels becuse I like super steels. Spyderco has always gravitated to the better steels. I don't know that I would call it "dollar signs". We pay more for better steels. I like to think of it as "Cutting Horsepower".
My last bike (sold last year, getting too old) was a VTR-1000. My "go fast" car is an Elise. My sailboat is a small raceboat. I'm a racer. My knives are "Racing knives".
Hi Paul, for comparison, CPM-S30V material cost is 2.4 times 440C and probably 4 times D2. ZDP-189 is more expensive than CPM-S30V. AUS-8 is about 25% more than 440C. 420J2 et al., is cheaper still.
In addition to material costs, the exotic steels are more abrasive resistant, so they are more expensive to form, grind, polish, drill, ream and sharpen.
There is no "best" steel!
When I ask my accountant, "What's the best steel?" He says the cheapest. When I ask my machinist the same question, he says the "one that machines the easiest", The finishing guys say the one that "polishes up the best", The dock worker says "the one that doesn't rust", some say, "the one that gets the sharpest", some say the "one that stays sharpest the longest".
"All good, just different".
A steel snob is one that has learned enough to know there is a difference. More to the knife then the "way it looks".
If I were going after dollars, I would merely use a "less expensive" steel. Way more profit in the cheaper steels and way esier to sell the "less expensive" products.
sal
My last bike (sold last year, getting too old) was a VTR-1000. My "go fast" car is an Elise. My sailboat is a small raceboat. I'm a racer. My knives are "Racing knives".
Hi Paul, for comparison, CPM-S30V material cost is 2.4 times 440C and probably 4 times D2. ZDP-189 is more expensive than CPM-S30V. AUS-8 is about 25% more than 440C. 420J2 et al., is cheaper still.
In addition to material costs, the exotic steels are more abrasive resistant, so they are more expensive to form, grind, polish, drill, ream and sharpen.
There is no "best" steel!
When I ask my accountant, "What's the best steel?" He says the cheapest. When I ask my machinist the same question, he says the "one that machines the easiest", The finishing guys say the one that "polishes up the best", The dock worker says "the one that doesn't rust", some say, "the one that gets the sharpest", some say the "one that stays sharpest the longest".
"All good, just different".
A steel snob is one that has learned enough to know there is a difference. More to the knife then the "way it looks".
If I were going after dollars, I would merely use a "less expensive" steel. Way more profit in the cheaper steels and way esier to sell the "less expensive" products.
sal
Sal, you own an Elise? You just sold a few more Spyderco knives! The Elise is one of my favorite cars, though I cannot afford one (I drive a Dodge SRT-4, which I absolutely love).
I was having trouble deciding on what I wanted next. A Spec Bump, a Military, or a nice slipjoint. Now I will get the Military.
I was having trouble deciding on what I wanted next. A Spec Bump, a Military, or a nice slipjoint. Now I will get the Military.
SG says,
"When I ask my accountant, "What's the best steel?" He says the cheapest. When I ask my machinist the same question, he says the "one that machines the easiest", The finishing guys say the one that "polishes up the best", The dock worker says "the one that doesn't rust", some say, "the one that gets the sharpest", some say the "one that stays sharpest the longest".
Okay, SG, but what does the "marketing guy" say. He has to sell the things and know what the customer wants and at what price.
"When I ask my accountant, "What's the best steel?" He says the cheapest. When I ask my machinist the same question, he says the "one that machines the easiest", The finishing guys say the one that "polishes up the best", The dock worker says "the one that doesn't rust", some say, "the one that gets the sharpest", some say the "one that stays sharpest the longest".
Okay, SG, but what does the "marketing guy" say. He has to sell the things and know what the customer wants and at what price.