I've lost respect for Rick Hinderer.

C

Corz

Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
27
I first purchased an XM-18 a few years ago. It was a Gen 2. When I first heard that the blades for the Gen 3 were being outsourced to a CNC company, I thought it was a move to lower costs and get the knives out there more frequently. Neither has happened. The knives aren't readily available and the prices haven't gone down. What has happened is the prices for his "custom" pieces have gone up by double the amount.

So pieces that were 400 dollars during the Gen 1 and 2 are now about 800 dollars. Why has this happened. I'm guessing it's because Rick realized that he was making custom knives that cost the same amount as factory produced knives like the Sebenza. So to me, he came up with this effort to up the price but make it look like he's actually not doing anything sneaky. He is.

First of all, it's his right as a businessman. It just sucks for the customers that they don't realize what has happened.
 
I think that you may want to rethink your post. Rick is NOT a crook , nor is he sneaky. He is one of the most generous knifemakers that I know.
Rick has nothing to do with the prices of his knives on the secondary market.
Rick works very hard to put out a good product at a fair price. The price of his knives directly from him are very reasonable. It is not his fault that prices have skyrocketed on the secondary market. That is called supply and demand.

Bobby
 
I agree with Bobby and with Suz, and I believe that you have posted your concerns in the wrong forum. Whine and cheese might be more applicable, however, as Bobby said, you are barking up the wrong tree.

The title for your thread sucks, by the way. Not cool at all.
:thumbdn:
 
Corz said:
I first purchased an XM-18 a few years ago. It was a Gen 2. When I first heard that the blades for the Gen 3 were being outsourced to a CNC company, I thought it was a move to lower costs and get the knives out there more frequently. Neither has happened. The knives aren't readily available and the prices haven't gone down. What has happened is the prices for his "custom" pieces have gone up by double the amount.
.........First of all, it's his right as a businessman. It just sucks for the customers that they don't realize what has happened.
Click to expand...

While I'm not the hugest fan of the style, and DO NOT drink the Kool Aid, I DO think that the area bolded above is why Rick took the production direction he did.

If he can't meet market demand, but is doing everything he can within reason to make more knives, how is this causing you to lose respect for him?

You should respect him because he is doing the best that he can to make a good, solid US built product at a fair price, a price so fair that everyone wants one.


Lorien said:
The title for your thread sucks, by the way. Not cool at all.
:thumbdn:
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It may suck, Lorien, but it is honest and heartfelt, and there are MANY, MANY other Forumites in Customs better suited to playing Forum Police than you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
So you've lost respect for Rick Hinderer because there is such a demand for his work? Not a great way to make your first posts in a forum- starting out by bashing a highly respected maker.
Definitely not cool. :thumbdn:

Edit: post reported for blatant trolling.
 
Corz said:
I first purchased an XM-18 a few years ago. It was a Gen 2. When I first heard that the blades for the Gen 3 were being outsourced to a CNC company, I thought it was a move to lower costs and get the knives out there more frequently. Neither has happened. The knives aren't readily available and the prices haven't gone down. What has happened is the prices for his "custom" pieces have gone up by double the amount.

So pieces that were 400 dollars during the Gen 1 and 2 are now about 800 dollars. Why has this happened. I'm guessing it's because Rick realized that he was making custom knives that cost the same amount as factory produced knives like the Sebenza. So to me, he came up with this effort to up the price but make it look like he's actually not doing anything sneaky. He is.

First of all, it's his right as a businessman. It just sucks for the customers that they don't realize what has happened.
Click to expand...


Just for the record.
BB
 
Bobby Branton said:
I think that you may want to rethink your post. Rick is NOT a crook , nor is he sneaky. He is one of the most generous knifemakers that I know.
Rick has nothing to do with the prices of his knives on the secondary market.
Rick works very hard to put out a good product at a fair price. The price of his knives directly from him are very reasonable. It is not his fault that prices have skyrocketed on the secondary market. That is called supply and demand.

Bobby
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the secondary market though. Rick's custom XM-18s are being sold for around 800 dollars from himself. Like I said, it's his right as a businessman but it's just morally wrong to me considering what they use to cost.
 
Kohai999 said:
While I'm not the hugest fan of the style, and DO NOT drink the Kool Aid, I DO think that the area bolded above is why Rick took the production direction he did.

If he can't meet market demand, but is doing everything he can within reason to make more knives, how is this causing you to lose respect for him?

You should respect him because he is doing the best that he can to make a good, solid US built product at a fair price, a price so fair that everyone wants one.



It may suck, Lorien, but it is honest and heartfelt, and there are MANY, MANY other Forumites in Customs better suited to playing Forum Police than you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Like I explained, "custom" XM-18s are now priced twice as much as they used to be.

This would be like a knifemaker selling a custom knife 600 dollars one year and then selling it for 1200 dollars the next year. And to compensate for the inflated price, the knifemaker releases a semi-custom version of the knife for 600 dollars.
 
Rick has NO "moral" obligation to sell you a product in tremendous demand at prices set by the buyers: he does not auction off his knives. Actually, if he did, they would probably go for more, as the secondary market shows.
 
Corz said:
I'm not talking about the secondary market though. Rick's custom XM-18s are being sold for around 800 dollars from himself. Like I said, it's his right as a businessman but it's just morally wrong to me considering what they use to cost.
Click to expand...

Hell, a couple of years ago I could buy a Brend fighter for $1,200.00.
They are now $2,900.00. I don't complain. I look for a alternative that is in my price range.
Becoming very popular is a double edged sword for some makers.
I'm sure while Rick spends most of his time making the new gen XM-18's his time for full customs is very limited and the demand is quite high. That usually translates into higher prices since the customs usually have upscale materials and more hand work involved in making them. It is the nature of the beast.
Like Kohai999 said, don't hate him for being successful, be thankful that they are still made in the good ole USA.
As a maker, I should be jealous, but I am not. People like Rick give me hope that with hard work, I can enjoy the same success one day.
BB
 
Corz said:
I first purchased an XM-18 a few years ago. It was a Gen 2. When I first heard that the blades for the Gen 3 were being outsourced to a CNC company, I thought it was a move to lower costs and get the knives out there more frequently. Neither has happened. The knives aren't readily available and the prices haven't gone down. What has happened is the prices for his "custom" pieces have gone up by double the amount.

So pieces that were 400 dollars during the Gen 1 and 2 are now about 800 dollars. Why has this happened. I'm guessing it's because Rick realized that he was making custom knives that cost the same amount as factory produced knives like the Sebenza. So to me, he came up with this effort to up the price but make it look like he's actually not doing anything sneaky. He is.
First of all, it's his right as a businessman. It just sucks for the customers that they don't realize what has happened.
Click to expand...

Is he?? You know this for a fact?? Or was he overwhelmed with orders on a knife that he may not have known would be so incredibly popular and so widely accepted as being one of the best folders available in its class & price range today, which has caused him to look for ways to keep up with demand while not sacrificing quality?
Rick has always tried to get his folders into the hands of those who use them and even when the list was closed for the custom XM-18's, he still accepted orders from those in active duty/first responder roles, and while the list was open, he gave these hard working individuals priority because they bought his knives to be used on the job.
I have met & chatted with Rick Hinderer twice at the BLADE show in Atlanta, and I have to say that he is a very humble and well respected knifemaker who immediately breaks into a smile when told that his knives are being carried and used. He loves to hear this. I have a Gen I 3.5" and a Gen III 3" that I rotate between and carry regularly. Both are great folders.

It may be the reason that the knives aren't flowing like water yet with the blades being outsourced because:

A.) he still makes the frames, sharpens the blades, and assembles each XM-18 in-house.
B.) He may still be catching up on previous orders
C.) Many may still be finding their way to active Military/LEO's/First Responders.

He's not seeing the higher prices that his earlier XM-18's are fetching. They are in the hands of those who bought them. He does have to pay the CNC company that makes the blades where before, he did it. Maybe this is why the price has remained at or near his original prices.

I do believe that you should watch your tone accusing any respected knifemaker unless you can back up your accusations with proof. Personally, and knowing the man, I find your comments here insulting to both Rick, and those who buy his knives.

Oh, BTW... I think that you may be exaggerating on the doubling of his current XM-18 full customs by roughly $200.
 
If you do not like his prices Do not buy one. To publicly slam a maker for a price increase is just not right. Unless he quoted you one price and you made a firm order at the time and then he changed the price before delivery. Even then what did you expect the outcome of this thread to be?
 
Jaxx said:
Is he?? You know this for a fact?? Or was he overwhelmed with orders on a knife that he may not have known would be so incredibly popular and so widely accepted as being one of the best folders available in its class & price range today, which has caused him to look for ways to keep up with demand while not sacrificing quality?
Rick has always tried to get his folders into the hands of those who use them and even when the list was closed for the custom XM-18's, he still accepted orders from those in active duty/first responder roles, and while the list was open, he gave these hard working individuals priority because they bought his knives to be used on the job.
I have met & chatted with Rick Hinderer twice at the BLADE show in Atlanta, and I have to say that he is a very humble and well respected knifemaker who immediately breaks into a smile when told that his knives are being carried and used. He loves to hear this. I have a Gen I 3.5" and a Gen III 3" that I rotate between and carry regularly. Both are great folders.

It may be the reason that the knives aren't flowing like water yet with the blades being outsourced because:

A.) he still makes the frames, sharpens the blades, and assembles each XM-18 in-house.
B.) He may still be catching up on previous orders
C.) Many may still be finding their way to active Military/LEO's/First Responders.

He's not seeing the higher prices that his earlier XM-18's are fetching. They are in the hands of those who bought them. He does have to pay the CNC company that makes the blades where before, he did it. Maybe this is why the price has remained at or near his original prices.

I do believe that you should watch your tone accusing any respected knifemaker unless you can back up your accusations with proof. Personally, and knowing the man, I find your comments here insulting to both Rick, and those who buy his knives.

Oh, BTW... I think that you may be exaggerating on the doubling of his current XM-18 full customs by roughly $200.
Click to expand...

What does it matter if Rick is not seeing or benefiting from the secondary market. That's not what is being discussed here.

It's the inflation of price for a "custom". I'll put it this way, if Rick wants to get the knives out there more quickly then why bother making "custom" XM-18s? And when I say "custom", I'm not talking about XM-18s that have carbon fiber handles, etc. I'm talking about XM-18s that are exactly the same as the semi-custom ones except the blades have been been done by Rick himself. By doing this, Rick is saying that the "custom" XM-18s are better than the "semi-custom" ones but just cost more now than they did a few years ago. I wouldn't have a problem with the shift in price for the "custom" XM-18s had the "semi-custom" ones had gone down in price.
 
Sounds like Mr. Hinderer is nothing but a rabble rouser. Stirring up all this commerce for his products and such.:p;)
 
moonwilson, please discuss the topic, not the poster -- that's the problem we have with the original post, personalizing his attack. Don't exacerbate it.
 
From what I've read R.Hinderer is a full time firefighter and a 1 man operation with knife making. I also think he has stopped taking orders for the X-18 till he catches up. Whatever the secondary prices are Rick is'nt making the profit.
I first purchased an XM-18 a few years ago. It was a Gen 2
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You should be glad you were able to get one and the prices have gone up. If you had to sell it you can make a profit.
Why did you single out Rick Hinderer? There are many other knife makers that have made knives that are more in demand than production. Scott Cook, Deryk Monroe, Phil Bogusezski, etc. Try getting a folder from them.
 
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