J.S. Performance test results

I'm glad to see you successfully pass your J.S. performance test. I enjoy your work and posts. Well done!
 
Congratulations on your performance test!
Would you mind sharing your heat treat formula with those of us that have yet to go through the test? I'm assuming that the knives were not edge quenched. Am I correct? There is a lot of debate on different techniques, but those results speak for themselves. It's nice to hear of someone getting their information from diverse sources and sorting it out for themselves. All of those mentioned deserve our respect for achieving success through different paths.Thank you for sharing with us.

Alden Sherrodd
 
Alden Sherrodd said:
Congratulations on your performance test!
Would you mind sharing your heat treat formula with those of us that have yet to go through the test? I'm assuming that the knives were not edge quenched. Am I correct? There is a lot of debate on different techniques, but those results speak for themselves. It's nice to hear of someone getting their information from diverse sources and sorting it out for themselves. All of those mentioned deserve our respect for achieving success through different paths.Thank you for sharing with us.

Alden Sherrodd
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a LOT of debate on different techniques, but I CAN NOT debate the performance of these two knives.
Yes, they were edge quenched - yet so difficult to bend, I could not even insult them by hand alone.
This actually takes me back a few years, and COULD add controversy to this thread, but the fact of the performance speaks for themselves.
It's my recipe and it works - well!
With this very same steel and recipe I had one fellow dress 8 does and 4 bucks and not sharpen his knife. With 5160!
Ok, a few years ago I read Ed Fowler's Knife Talk and even though I can't find it today (I think I "loaned" it out!), he wrote that during the time when he was still forging from 52100 ball bearings, he made the statement that he FREQUENTLY had knives forged from 2" ball bearings out-cut knives forged from 1 1/2" ball bearings. But, on the other hand, he never had knives forged from 1 1/2" ball bearing out-cut knives forged from 2" ball bearings.
All things being the same - forging temps, thickness, grind, profile, hardening techniques, etc., the ONLY thing different was the amount of forging and accompanying thermal cycles.
Think of all that what you like.
There are those who say that once you normalize and anneal, all things go back to normal.
OK.
I know that I have only had marginal performance when using 5160 bar stock.
About 3 years ago I acquired 2400 feet of 1" square 5160 made back in '84. Of course, this requires a LOT more forging than using bar stock.
So, I went out and took Ed's Seminar of the High Performance Blade.
I have also spent numerous hours discussing with this person, and that person, etc. etc.
I've been to Ashokan twice now to learn what I can there, as well.
Over a few months of emails with Kevin Cashen, I was able to discover a "glitch" in my heat treating oven which basically was the stratifying of temps within the oven itself.
I got that evened out.
I use Tex Type "A" oil - which isn't made any more.
I started using industry standards for sub-critical spherodizing annealing, at the advice from Kevin Cashen.
I use a combination of flat and convex grinds.
Really, just this from here and that from there and I have the following recipe:
1.) Forged from large stock.
2.) Post-forging critical temp quenches to refine grain.
3.) Three reducing heat normalize cycles.
4.) Sub-critical spherodizing anneal:
a. Hold @ 1375 for 1 1/2 hours.
b. Cool quickly to 1300.
c. Drop to 1200 degrees at 10 degrees/hr. (Industry standard!)
5.) Grind to full finish. (Convex)
6.) Pre-heat oven to 1525 for 1 hour. (I might add here that to my oven I added a 1/2" thick piece of plate steel the size of the entire floor of the oven! When this comes up to heat with the oven and is held there for an hour, there is literally NO temp fluctuation and the temp is steady.)
7.) Soak at 1525 for 18 minutes.
8.) Quench with limiter plate until all color is gone from blade.
9.) Let cool down in oil.
10.) Three 350 degree temper cycles.
11.) Enjoy.
 
Karl
Thank you for posting your heat treat recipe. It all makes sense to me, but I have one question. Your step 2, is that a full quench to room temp or an interrupted quench? The quality difference in steel that the maker reduces in size a larger degree himself could even be the fact that a smaller amount of the volume of the steel has been exposed to the harsh environment of the commercial milling operation. Even just decarb. I've wondered about using bar that was close to the finished size. For me reducing round bar instead of flat stock yielded cleaner steel.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, and the results of your efforts.

Alden
 
Alden Sherrodd said:
Karl
Thank you for posting your heat treat recipe. It all makes sense to me, but I have one question. Your step 2, is that a full quench to room temp or an interrupted quench? The quality difference in steel that the maker reduces in size a larger degree himself could even be the fact that a smaller amount of the volume of the steel has been exposed to the harsh environment of the commercial milling operation. Even just decarb. I've wondered about using bar that was close to the finished size. For me reducing round bar instead of flat stock yielded cleaner steel.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, and the results of your efforts.

Alden
Click to expand...
That's a really good point and I appreciate that concept.
The post forging quenches - for 5160/52100 - are in room temp, medium speed oil for about 30 seconds. Three times.
 
Karl, congratulations on passing your JS performance test with flying colours.

It's also great to see another maker that is willing to pass on the knowledge that he has gained.
 
Karl, congratulations on passing your JS test... hopefully I'll get more time to pick your brain next year at Ashokan, as we really didn't talk at this go-round.

Congratulations, again!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top