Jim Merritt

Kevin Jones said:
I agree Steven in regard to value (may even go higher) as long as the scrim & engraving is removed by Jim along with a general refurbishment. I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen. ;)
I don't believe the use of brass necessarily renders this piece un-saleable as it's right for the period and I don't see many turning down Morans specifically because of the use of brass. I have no problem with brass as long as it "fits" the application.

"As is", I predict the chance of sale at anything even near current asking price is bleak at best.
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Trying to compare brass on a Moran with brass on an old Loveless-type non-Loveless is a pretty big stretch, Kevin. You might want to re-think that analogy. Even Warenskis decline vastly in value with brass elements. Morans, on the other hand, have a value support that isn't nearly as concerned with brass.

Bob

EDIT: add the following at the end "because brass is an expected and accepted element with Moran values."
 
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betzner said:
Trying to compare brass on a Moran with brass on an old Loveless-type non-Loveless is a pretty big stretch, Kevin. You might want to re-think that analogy.

Bob
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Hi Bob.
Didn't intend my statement as a comparison, but more an example to support my and other's opinion that "brass has it's place".

As you know, Lots of knives in the era of the subject knife (including those by Loveless and Moran) have brass guards.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Hi Bob.
Didn't intend my statement as a comparison, but more an example to support my and other's opinion that "brass has it's place".

As you know, Lots of knives in the era of the subject knife (including those by Loveless and Moran) have brass guards.
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I don't need a lesson on brass, on it's impact on value or in what era it was prevalent.

You shouldn't try and support what was a bad analogy with "brass has it's place". We both know that most collectors today don't buy knives of high value with brass elements, Moran of course being a huge exception. Even many Loveless knives with brass reduce in value because of brass elements.

Try not to cast this discussion as being about your and other's opinion, because if we were to sample collectors over a broad spectrum, you would obviously lose the argument - because the fact is, "almost" no one collects pieces with brass anymore, at least of higher value.

Sure, brass has it's place. Just don't try to keep the discussion going on, simply to support a position that is rather untenable.

Bob

Edit: Please excuse my current state of lucidity - today seems to be a period during which the brain is actually working well.
 
I love it when the collector/investors obliquely state that knife collecting is at best a poor long term investment...of course no collector/investor here would be that "delusional" because this is "BladeForums, where the BEST come to congregate." :)
 
brownshoe said:
I love it when the collector/investors obliquely state that knife collecting is at best a poor long term investment...of course no collector/investor here would be that "delusional" because this is "BladeForums, where the BEST come to congregate." :)
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Why not take your mind somewhere else, brownshoe, since it is irrelevant to this thread topic.
 
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betzner said:
You shouldn't try and support what was a bad analogy with "brass has it's place". We both know that most collectors today don't buy knives of high value with brass elements, Moran of course being a huge exception. Even many Loveless knives with brass reduce in value because of brass elements. .
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I don't consider up to $4,500 to be an especially high value....but it ain't peanuts.;)

Kevin's analogy wasn't especially inept, just like makers make what they want, collectors collect what they want. Certainly people who collect Ed Fowler knives have no problem with brass, and they pay BIG for Ed's knives.

Brass backed fighters by Loveless pull a premium, last I heard.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
betzner said:
I don't need a lesson on brass, on it's impact on value or in what era it was prevalent.

You shouldn't try and support what was a bad analogy with "brass has it's place". We both know that most collectors today don't buy knives of high value with brass elements, Moran of course being a huge exception. Even many Loveless knives with brass reduce in value because of brass elements.

Try not to cast this discussion as being about your and other's opinion, because if we were to sample collectors over a broad spectrum, you would obviously lose the argument - because the fact is, "almost" no one collects pieces with brass anymore, at least of higher value.

Sure, brass has it's place. Just don't try to keep the discussion going on, simply to support a position that is rather untenable.

Bob

Edit: Please excuse my current state of lucidity - today seems to be a period during which the brain is actually working well.
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Bob I'm certainly not trying to give you a lesson and I don't believe anyone is trying to pick a argument or fight with you on this subject.
Paul, Steven and I have our opinions as you have yours. :)
 
Kohai999 said:
I don't consider up to $4,500 to be an especially high value....but it ain't peanuts.;)

Brass backed fighters by Loveless pull a premium, last I heard.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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As we old guys disappear, so does the market for brass guarded knives (no matter the value), because the population of buyers diminishes rather proportionally to our demise. And those with $4500 to spend on an old Merritt with brass grow fewer by the year, at least in my opinion. Finding the person who would spend $4500, if the knife were put "new" by Mr Merritt, is an arguable point, but that's not where I am coming from or intend to go.

This all started with a simple comment of opinion about the collectibility of brass. Simpy put, I stand by my opinion, making conclusion of this discussion a simple one. Incidentally, we agree on Loveless fighters with brass. I said "most", thinking hunters.

I'd stick around and discuss that $4500 value, but rationally, I can't see Jim Merritt updating the knife or removing all the dread from it that is visible.

Best,

Bob
 
Kevin Jones said:
Bob I'm certainly not trying to give you a lesson and I don't believe anyone is trying to pick a argument or fight with you on this subject.
Paul, Steven and I have our opinions as you have yours. :)
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I'll buy that, LOL.

Bob
 
brownshoe said:
I love it when the collector/investors obliquely state that knife collecting is at best a poor long term investment...of course no collector/investor here would be that "delusional" because this is "BladeForums, where the BEST come to congregate." :)
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Brown, I have never stated that custom knives were a good "long term investment" even though knives from particular makers can certainly be.

I have always stated that my investment philosophy is to buy and sell what I consider the "right" knives from the "right" makers at the "right" times.

The exception to my "timing is crucial" rule is that I feel the "right knives" from makers such as Jerry Fisk, Bob Loveless and others I could name are/will be good investments no matter the length held.

Edit to add: I say "right knife" because I don't feel there's any knifemaker from who you could purchase any knife and have an expectation that is will definitely go up in value.
 
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betzner said:
I'd stick around and discuss that $4500 value, but rationally, I can't see Jim Merritt updating the knife or removing all the dread from it that is visible.

Best,

Bob
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Not only can I see Jim doing it if asked, but I seriously doubt that it would take him more than 20 minutes to finish the job.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Outside of an Ed Fowler knife - or an Ed Fowler styled knife, I can't see brass having much play at all in the context of a contemporary higher end knife. Might there be an exception or two? You bet. But they are exceptions that define the rule.

Roger
 
Funnily enough, I've taken two orders this week for Loveless style knives with customers asking for brass fittings rather than stainless...mind you, we are talking about the subterranean end of the market here....in England too!;):D

Nice Merritt by the way, shame about that handle.

Ian
 
Kohai999 said:
I don't consider up to $4,500 to be an especially high value....but it ain't peanuts.;)

Kevin's analogy wasn't especially inept, just like makers make what they want, collectors collect what they want.
Brass backed fighters by Loveless pull a premium, last I heard.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Certainly people who collect Ed Fowler knives have no problem with brass, and they pay BIG for Ed's knives.
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I know people who collect clown portraits on black velvet too....:foot:
 
Interesting discussion, and valid perspectives.

The acceptability of brass or not, and Anthony's statement regarding "collecting clown portraits on black velvet" brings to mind this experience:

In good weather, I frequent a large flea market that spans "high brow" sellers, that think they are on 5th avenue in NYC, and those that do "cleanouts" and each item is simply one thing to be sold. One regular that sells nice old tools typically has a LOT of brass in various items such as plumb bobs, scales, etc.

His method is to polish the brass so it is nice and shiny. One time in a conversation, I mentioned that ALL the "experts" claim brass should be left with its natural patina, and should NOT be polished. To that he replied: "Very true what the experts say, but week after week of putting out the "original patina" items and carrying them home with me, led me to do what sells them".

I just laughed, as he did, because he was RIGHT. Those nice shiny tools sold EVERY week, and I did witness the results!

Perhaps this isn't totally pertinent to the discussion or a good analogy, but all i'm saying is "no one size fits ALL".

Peter
 
peterinct said:
Interesting discussion, and valid perspectives.

The acceptability of brass or not, and Anthony's statement regarding "collecting clown portraits on black velvet" brings to mind this experience:

In good weather, I frequent a large flea market that spans "high brow" sellers, that think they are on 5th avenue in NYC, and those that do "cleanouts" and each item is simply one thing to be sold. One regular that sells nice old tools typically has a LOT of brass in various items such as plumb bobs, scales, etc.

His method is to polish the brass so it is nice and shiny. One time in a conversation, I mentioned that ALL the "experts" claim brass should be left with its natural patina, and should NOT be polished. To that he replied: "Very true what the experts say, but week after week of putting out the "original patina" items and carrying them home with me, led me to do what sells them".

I just laughed, as he did, because he was RIGHT. Those nice shiny tools sold EVERY week, and I did witness the results!

Perhaps this isn't totally pertinent to the discussion or a good analogy, but all i'm saying is "no one size fits ALL".

Peter
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Crows and fish are attracted to shiny gold things too! The seller is very astute.
 
I like it, even with the engraving and inlays. Thanks for sharing a photo of an early Merritt. :thumbup:

Fascinating to see how the grinds progressed over the years. :)
 
Another interesting thread.

Don't know if I would ever fit in here, because I clearly don't think like you with all the talk of marketplace, and contacts, and premiums, and value, value, value, value, value . . . ad nauseum. It just comes across like most or all of you are just all about money. I'm about knives. I like knives. I buy a knife I like when I think my enjoyment of the knife will be worth more to me than the asking price. Never sold a knife I bought, and never bought a knife thinking about how much I could sell it for someday. When I die, my kids can worry about that. :) Sometimes when I read threads like this here I get the idea that at BF, "collector" is just a euphemism for "profiteer" or "speculator."

Back to the knife in question . . . to me, it is ugly. Don't really like anything about it at all. Don't even like the shape of the blade. Yes, the brass guard and subhilt are a turn off for me. But as I went back over my collection I realized that I do have several knives with brass guards - knives by Jimmy Lile, Bill Moran, and a couple of Randalls. But the brass guards look good on those knifes (except maybe the Randalls).

I guess one statement here that I want to comment on is that "Brass backed fighters by Loveless pull a premium." Sure. But that looks cool. This knife is not brass backed. It has a brass guard and subhilt. Not the same thing. Not even close to the same thing. IMO, of course.
 
I have been very fortunate to meet A LOT of folks in the custom knife community yet have never met the first pure "custom knife investor". Not saying there aren't any out there, just that I have never met one. Now by pure investor, I mean someone who purchases custom knives without emotion and with no other purpose than price appreciation and profit.

Now there are those who also enjoy the investment aspect of it however still love customs knives. I mean, if you think about it how many hobbies can you thoroughly enjoy for free or even make a little money at it if you choose to?

There's some who have financed their collections by first buying modest but solid knives to latter sell then to buy finer or more knives. Some collectors would not have afforded to be among us as collectors without having taken this approach.

There's those who absolutely hate the financial side of it who are totally into it for the knives and would never dream of selling a knife.

There's some custom knife enthusiasts who can't yet afford custom knives however they participate and enjoy the excitement as much as the rest of us.

The great thing is that ALL these philosophies collectively help to progress the custom knives that bring us ALL so much enjoyment. :)
 
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