Jimislash has a new Competition Chopper

Wallace Edged Tools said:
Any differences between the two are merely a consequence of ease of production, production cost, like two pins instead of three, bevel grind height, etc..
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Exactly what I was thinking. There are allowances for different manufacturing processes (prototyping vs. mass production) that account for the so-called "difference."

If I came up with a design completely on my own, there is no way it would look that close to anyone else's.
 
Wallace Edged Tools said:
Yes all competition choppers look similar. That is due to strict requirements for blade length, handle length, etc. The difference is that each maker has his or her own design style that makes it unique.
My brand has been around for a long time as you can look on YouTube for my brand. I don’t make or market this style so I’m not drumming up business for something I don’t make. I was with Cold Steel for 13+ years as a designer and have several produced knives and co-inventor on several patented items. Also I’m working with two other manufacturers for 2023 products. None of which are competition choppers.
Jimislash claims it’s his design yet has no design experience or knife making experience that he has ever indicated on his YouTube or other social media.
Any differences between the two are merely a consequence of ease of production, production cost, like two pins instead of three, bevel grind height, etc..
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So if they all look generally the same, due to the requirements.

And the details are different, due to production cost.

So if neither the general shape, nor the details are yours, then... what is?

I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm just interested in the idea of what constitutes a "design".
 
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1. They are far more similar than they are different.
2. The signatory designer made zero effort to differentiate from someone else's prototype. That is about the laziest thing I have ever seen.
 
Hello Everyone. I would like to step in here on and set the record straight. I will keep this simple and straightforward

1- Cold Steel decided to support the blade sports community by creating a chopper following the specifications set forth by the Blade Sports organization.

2- At the time Mike was employed by GSM and tasked with creating a design and prototype. Mike and three other GSM designers came up with the first iteration/prototype you see Mike posting.

3- GSM decided to sponsor a Blade Sports competitor who has been a loyal brand ambassador and a true knife loving professional. You all know him as Jimi Slash.

4- We used the original chopper designs (designed by our GSM team) as a starting point for the Jimi Slash chopper. Many iterations, prototypes and design changes were made along the testing process. These design changes and modifications were given to us by Jimi after all the rigorous testing he did . While the two knifes look similar it is important to note, Jimi Slash has been instrumental in the continuous development and design changes over the countless iterations of this chopper. This is a Jimi Slash designed chopper that used some design ques from multiple GSM designers.


I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
 
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Shaun Cazin said:
Hello Everyone. I would like to step in here on and set the record straight. I will keep this simple and straightforward

1- Cold Steel decided to support the blade sports community by creating a chopper following the specifications set forth by the Blade Sports organization.

2- At the time Mike was employed by GSM and tasked with creating a design and prototype. Mike and three other GSM designers came up with the first iteration/prototype you see Mike posting.

3- GSM decided to sponsor a Blade Sports competitor who has been a loyal brand ambassador and a true knife loving professional. You all know him as Jimi Slash.

4- We used the original chopper designs (designed by our GSM team) as a starting point for the Jimi Slash chopper. Many iterations, prototypes and design changes were made along the testing process. These design changes and modifications were given to us by Jimi after all the rigorous testing he did . While the two knifes look similar it is important to note, Jimi Slash has been instrumental in the continuous development and design changes over the countless iterations of this chopper. This is a Jimi Slash designed chopper that used some design ques from multiple GSM designers.


I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
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Thanks for chiming in here. In case folks are wondering who you are: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaun-cazin-8574642a
 
dogstar said:
IMG-3892.jpg


IMG-3891.jpg


1. They are far more similar than they are different.
2. The signatory designer made zero effort to differentiate from someone else's prototype. That is about the laziest thing I have ever seen.
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In my opinion, those look like two significantly different comp choppers.

All indy cars look about the same to me but to someone familiar with indy car design they're all very different. But they look alike to me.

I'm pretty familiar with comp chopper design and Bladesports. To me, those two knives look different and you might find other knives at events that also look pretty similar.

Also, it is difficult to look at a knife design on the internet and get a good feel for it. These could both be great knives or they could both be turds. Without handling them and competing with them it's tough to say.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Hello Everyone. I would like to step in here on and set the record straight. I will keep this simple and straightforward

1- Cold Steel decided to support the blade sports community by creating a chopper following the specifications set forth by the Blade Sports organization.

2- At the time Mike was employed by GSM and tasked with creating a design and prototype. Mike and three other GSM designers came up with the first iteration/prototype you see Mike posting.

3- GSM decided to sponsor a Blade Sports competitor who has been a loyal brand ambassador and a true knife loving professional. You all know him as Jimi Slash.

4- We used the original chopper designs (designed by our GSM team) as a starting point for the Jimi Slash chopper. Many iterations, prototypes and design changes were made along the testing process. These design changes and modifications were given to us by Jimi after all the rigorous testing he did . While the two knifes look similar it is important to note, Jimi Slash has been instrumental in the continuous development and design changes over the countless iterations of this chopper. This is a Jimi Slash designed chopper that used some design ques from multiple GSM designers.


I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
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Hello Shaun,
In my time with GSM I never heard you mentioned as you were not a person I dealt as part of the engineering team. I will reply to your response in order.

1- Are you aware of the stringent requirements for a production blade for Blade Sports? You can’t have a production blade made by a competitor, only a sponsor. Is Jimislash a sponsor? Feel free to look up the Blade Sports rules on this.

2- Totally untrue. I drew 6 concept sketches and submitted them to my supervisors which you were not one of them. They picked one and I made the prototype directly from the original concept with no changes. There were no “three” other GSM designers involved. I’ve reached out to one of your design team members today so you know how to contact me. I’d like to see proof of the other designers and their input.

3- I have no input as GSM is free to sponsor as they choose.

4- Really? Many iterations, prototypes, and design changes to make something that is 99.9% the same as the original? Yes I guess removing one handle pin and lowering the primary bevel grind down 1/4” really is a huge difference.

You joined a hour ago to confront me to refute my claims. You make many bold statements yet offer zero proof of your claims. You can only “set the record straight” with proof, not just words.
 
Wallace Edged Tools said:
Hello Shaun,
In my time with GSM I never heard you mentioned as you were not a person I dealt as part of the engineering team. I will reply to your response in order.

1- Are you aware of the stringent requirements for a production blade for Blade Sports? You can’t have a production blade made by a competitor, only a sponsor. Is Jimislash a sponsor? Feel free to look up the Blade Sports rules on this.

2- Totally untrue. I drew 6 concept sketches and submitted them to my supervisors which you were not one of them. They picked one and I made the prototype directly from the original concept with no changes. There were no “three” other GSM designers involved. I’ve reached out to one of your design team members today so you know how to contact me. I’d like to see proof of the other designers and their input.

3- I have no input as GSM is free to sponsor as they choose.

4- Really? Many iterations, prototypes, and design changes to make something that is 99.9% the same as the original? Yes I guess removing one handle pin and lowering the primary bevel grind down 1/4” really is a huge difference.

You joined a hour ago to confront me to refute my claims. You make many bold statements yet offer zero proof of your claims. You can only “set the record straight” with proof, not just words.
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🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Hello Everyone. I would like to step in here on and set the record straight. I will keep this simple and straightforward

1- Cold Steel decided to support the blade sports community by creating a chopper following the specifications set forth by the Blade Sports organization.

2- At the time Mike was employed by GSM and tasked with creating a design and prototype. Mike and three other GSM designers came up with the first iteration/prototype you see Mike posting.

3- GSM decided to sponsor a Blade Sports competitor who has been a loyal brand ambassador and a true knife loving professional. You all know him as Jimi Slash.

4- We used the original chopper designs (designed by our GSM team) as a starting point for the Jimi Slash chopper. Many iterations, prototypes and design changes were made along the testing process. These design changes and modifications were given to us by Jimi after all the rigorous testing he did . While the two knifes look similar it is important to note, Jimi Slash has been instrumental in the continuous development and design changes over the countless iterations of this chopper. This is a Jimi Slash designed chopper that used some design ques from multiple GSM designers.


I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
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Furthermore if any or all of what you say is true, why was Jimislash deleting his comment on his YouTube video about being the real designer, and maker, and dodging this thread for days if he is correct and I’m wrong?

If Jimislash was so instrumental in its creation why wouldn’t he just say so?

If he’s the real expert why have me (and your three man design team) waste the time in drawing concepts, refining the design, and make a prototype in the first place?

If this was at all true he’d be defending his position personally and publicly instead of waiting on someone else to reply on his behalf with claims that aren’t backed up with any proof. This sounds like classic damage control.
 
Wallace Edged Tools said:
Hello Shaun,
In my time with GSM I never heard you mentioned as you were not a person I dealt as part of the engineering team. I will reply to your response in order.

1- Are you aware of the stringent requirements for a production blade for Blade Sports? You can’t have a production blade made by a competitor, only a sponsor. Is Jimislash a sponsor? Feel free to look up the Blade Sports rules on this.

2- Totally untrue. I drew 6 concept sketches and submitted them to my supervisors which you were not one of them. They picked one and I made the prototype directly from the original concept with no changes. There were no “three” other GSM designers involved. I’ve reached out to one of your design team members today so you know how to contact me. I’d like to see proof of the other designers and their input.

3- I have no input as GSM is free to sponsor as they choose.

4- Really? Many iterations, prototypes, and design changes to make something that is 99.9% the same as the original? Yes I guess removing one handle pin and lowering the primary bevel grind down 1/4” really is a huge difference.

You joined a hour ago to confront me to refute my claims. You make many bold statements yet offer zero proof of your claims. You can only “set the record straight” with proof, not just words.
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Mike,

I will address a few of your statements:


1- Are you aware of the stringent requirements for a production blade for Blade Sports? You can’t have a production blade made by a competitor, only a sponsor. Is Jimislash a sponsor? Feel free to look up the Blade Sports rules on this.

Yes, we have a close relationship with the Blade Sports team. In fact, they were kind enough to test Jimi’s chopper and offer design suggestions as well. We are still working with the Blade Sports team and will continue to support them and value their opinion on the industry.


2- Totally untrue. I drew 6 concept sketches and submitted them to my supervisors which you were not one of them. They picked one and I made the prototype directly from the original concept with no changes.

This is correct, as a GSM designer you were tasked with creating designs and prototypes.



2.1 There were no “three” other GSM designers involved. I’ve reached out to one of your design team members today so you know how to contact me. I’d like to see proof of the other designers and their input.

We had two additional designers and your supervisor working on this design.


3- I have no input as GSM is free to sponsor as they choose.

Correct

4- Really? Many iterations, prototypes, and design changes to make something that is 99.9% the same as the original? Yes I guess removing one handle pin and lowering the primary bevel grind down 1/4” really is a huge difference.

As a knife designer I would assume you can see how vastly different these choppers are, so I can only assume you are just putting on a show at this point. While the Jimi Slash version does use some of the original design ideas its has been changed and modified many times over based on our competitor’s feedback and requests.


5- You joined a hour ago to confront me to refute my claims. You make many bold statements yet offer zero proof of your claims. You can only “set the record straight” with proof, not just words.

I am not refuting your claim at all, you were a part of the design. As a GSM employee, you and other GSM designers helped get the Jimi Slash chopper to a point where Jimi could make the modifications necessary to make it his own. I felt it important for the community to understand that GSM designed this chopper with Jimi.
 
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I can see some of the differences between the two knives. They are subtle, but identifiable. Many of the competition choppers look similar.

However, something is amiss here between Mike and GSM.

The two parties needs to figure this out as it's getting ugly.

Also, I am very happy to see we have a CS rep here finally. Many of us are CS fans and have spent and lot of time and money on these products for many years.

I really wish it was under better circumstances though.
 
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MolokaiRider said:
I can see some of the differences between the two knives. They are subtle, but identifiable. Many of the competition choppers look similar.

However, something is amiss here between Mike and GSM.

The two parties needs to figure this out as it's getting ugly.

Also, I am very happy to see we have a CS rep here finally. Many of us are CS fans and have spent and lot of time and money on these products for many years.

I really with it was under better circumstances though.
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We appreciate your support and business. It is and always has been our goal to continue the Cold Steel legacy that Lynn created.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
We appreciate your support and business. It is and always has been our goal to continue the Cold Steel legacy that Lynn created.
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I am glad to hear that. I am not going to de-rail this thread too much, but ever since the changeover many of us have feedback for your teams on a few things we hope to see.

I am also hopeful that the issue of this current topic is resolved. Mike has some really great designs and we want to see more of what he can do.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
Mike,

I will address a few of your statements:


1- Are you aware of the stringent requirements for a production blade for Blade Sports? You can’t have a production blade made by a competitor, only a sponsor. Is Jimislash a sponsor? Feel free to look up the Blade Sports rules on this.

Yes, we have a close relationship with the Blade Sports team. In fact, they were kind enough to test Jimi’s chopper and offer design suggestions as well. We are still working with the Blade Sports team and will continue to support them and value their opinion on the industry.


2- Totally untrue. I drew 6 concept sketches and submitted them to my supervisors which you were not one of them. They picked one and I made the prototype directly from the original concept with no changes.

This is correct, as a GSM designer you were tasked with creating designs and prototypes.



2.1 There were no “three” other GSM designers involved. I’ve reached out to one of your design team members today so you know how to contact me. I’d like to see proof of the other designers and their input.

We had two additional designers and your supervisor working on this design.


3- I have no input as GSM is free to sponsor as they choose.

Correct

4- Really? Many iterations, prototypes, and design changes to make something that is 99.9% the same as the original? Yes I guess removing one handle pin and lowering the primary bevel grind down 1/4” really is a huge difference.

As a knife designer I would assume you can see how vastly different these choppers are, so I can just assume you are just putting on a show at this point. While the Jimi Slash version does use some of the original design ideas its has been changed and modified many times over based on our competitor’s feedback and requests.


5- You joined a hour ago to confront me to refute my claims. You make many bold statements yet offer zero proof of your claims. You can only “set the record straight” with proof, not just words.

I am not refuting your claim at all, you were a part of the design. As a GSM employee, you and other GSM designers helped get the Jimi Slash chopper to a point where Jimi could make the modifications necessary to make it his own. I felt it important for the community to understand that GSM designed this chopper with Jimi.
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1-If this is true I stand corrected. Though it would seem a conflict of interest having the Blade Sports International helping Cold Steel in the design of a competition knife as this could prove unfair for other makers and companies. Unless maybe they are helping everyone? Why couldn’t Jimislash have stated this himself?

2.1- Drawing a knife on CAD doesn’t make a knife designer. A designer of a kitchen faucet may not make the best knife designer. Like me as a knife designer and maker may not be the best choice to design a lawnmower.

4- So me and roughly 95% of the people in this thread can’t see things as clearly as you? You insult me and the rest of the members here.

5-Jimi to make modifications? He has 1.8k videos as a knife reviewer without a single mention of his design and knife making credentials.
Yet now since he’s your YouTube guy he suddenly is a talented designer and maker?

He made all of the variations?
Never a video of his knife shop with him making knives?
If he’s a true expert why all the iterations, and several people helping him?
Ask any maker here how long it takes to perfect the craft. He’s not making pre production grade samples in less than a year.

This could have been easily cleared up by Jimislash himself. He can make an YouTube video saying “This is my knife” and have a Blade Magazine article yet can’t say a word here?
If me and the other three designers were a part of it why weren’t we given any credit?
Are the folks at Blade Sports given credit? Is credit being given to the several “competitors” for their efforts? YOU SAY ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE HELPING JIMISLASH MAKE IT HIS OWN? I would think he could make it his own by himself. Seems like a lot of people had their hand in this with only one person getting the credit. I never needed a “team” when designing for the old Cold Steel. I guess times are a changing. Why did he delete his comment about this being “his” design of it were true? Just more smoke and mirrors with zero proof.
 
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