Joker Bowie

Dav1 said:
Alone Alone still want to try a Joker Knife and yes will probably go with a blade in 14c28n (a favourite steel). It amazes me that they continue to use what seems a sub par steel 1.4116 for a larger blade when they are making knives with 14c28n and 12c27 (both great steels). Prices could still be reasonable as seen with their blades which use this steel. I'm guessing their production runs for the bowies are set with the current steel due to them making them for other companies? Shame as they've lost my custom for numerous knives.
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I love my Joker Nomad in N695 steel. I use it in the kitchen and split wood for my fire pit, even though I have a axe near by. The sheath it came with is very useful. I would be willing to try another large size knife in this steel but I have become bit of a steel snob after being spoiled by my Para3 in m390.
 
ChrisLee said:
I love my Joker Nomad in N695 steel. I use it in the kitchen and split wood for my fire pit, even though I have a axe near by. The sheath it came with is very useful. I would be willing to try another large size knife in this steel but I have become bit of a steel snob after being spoiled by my Para3 in m390.
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nomad is a great knife. I got one recently and I'm liking a lot about it. the snaps on the sheath belt loop aren't ideal though. I haven't had an issue with them yet coming open, but pretty sure MolokaiRider MolokaiRider has had issues with them.......
 
Sorry another ramble😏 Well doing a bit more research and it seems Condor do a crap HT and leave their 1075 soft. SO I'll overcome my "dislike" of the handle and will be adding my first Buck (I wanted a 6-7" Bowie) and go for a 119 along with a 112 lite hunter I'll be ordering.

I did look at the Nomad (larger one) but have a Lionsteel M7 which is imo a very similar blade size and shape, a nice knife though!
 
Dav1 said:
Sorry another ramble😏 Well doing a bit more research and it seems Condor do a crap HT and leave their 1075 soft. SO I'll overcome my "dislike" of the handle and will be adding my first Buck (I wanted a 6-7" Bowie) and go for a 119 along with a 112 lite hunter I'll be ordering.

I did look at the Nomad (larger one) but have a Lionsteel M7 which is imo a very similar blade size and shape, a nice knife though!
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119 is a great knife, I own many and it's a personal favorite knife model for cutting use...... but its not a chopper. it's designed more for general cutting use, hunting and light camping tasks...but not batonning or chopping. it won't do well on those.
 
jbmonkey jbmonkey , I gave up trying to find a decent traditional smaller Bowie with good steel and don't own a Buck and would like to. Totally understand its limitations and would accompany a Gransfors hatchet for heavier duties when wild camping.

We've also got some private land where the owner is more than happy for us to hunt (rabbit) rare where we are so it will come in handy!
 
Dav1 said:
jbmonkey jbmonkey , I gave up trying to find a decent traditional smaller Bowie with good steel and don't own a Buck and would like to. Totally understand its limitations and would accompany a Gransfors hatchet for heavier duties when wild camping.
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yes Sir. it's a great american made knife for the money. I dont think you'll be disappointed if you already get what it's good at and what it isn't good at. I own dozens of them and use one a lot.....my personal favorite is a blem in 5160 steel. second favorite is a plain Jane one.
 
ChrisLee said:
I love my Joker Nomad in N695 steel. I use it in the kitchen and split wood for my fire pit, even though I have a axe near by. The sheath it came with is very useful. I would be willing to try another large size knife in this steel but I have become bit of a steel snob after being spoiled by my Para3 in m390.
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N695 is literally 440C, if the carbon snobs on this forums hear that you can split wood with 440C, they might get blazed.
Dav1 said:
Sorry another ramble😏 Well doing a bit more research and it seems Condor do a crap HT and leave their 1075 soft. SO I'll overcome my "dislike" of the handle and will be adding my first Buck (I wanted a 6-7" Bowie) and go for a 119 along with a 112 lite hunter I'll be ordering.

I did look at the Nomad (larger one) but have a Lionsteel M7 which is imo a very similar blade size and shape, a nice knife though!
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There is the Ka Bar 1235, that's fit your criteria, yes it is made of 1.4116, but you can look at as 12C27 with some extra elements to it. No objection on the Buck 119 though.
 
It has been a mystery to me in general as to why so many traditional knife manufacturers, specifically in Europe, seem to simply refuse to use decent steels in theirs knives. If traditionalism is the reason, one would think that they would use simple high carbon steel blades instead of stainless ones. Steels like 440C, N690/695 or 14c28n are barely more expensive then stuff like 4116, but outperform it considerably with a decent heat treat. At the prices many of these brands demand, the use of N690 over 440A can hardly make a difference in terms of manufacturing or material cost. It is a shame too, as many of these blades are hand made & often very well finished, just to be made with a 100+ year old stainless steel formula. At the price of a premium knife no less.

The conclusion can only be then, that these manufacturers know that their average customer does not actually use their blades, but simply buys them for their collection to look at. As such, stainlessness is a preferable quality over edge retention or toughness. Cheap steels are adequate for that application, as the steel is never put to the test. While only pennies are saved on the individual knife, much more money is saved in lager volumes in the long term.
 
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I can understand using softer steels on outdoor survival type knives. You can use just almost any hard surface to sharpen them. It’s not an easy task to field sharpen harder steels with stones. Elmax for example is not fun to hand sharpen on a stone.
 
Im not expecting that, for example Puma, uses Elmax or M390 for all of their blades. All im expecting is a well performing modern steel that will hold an edge longer then my potato peeler. Field sharpening & maintaining 440C or N690 should not be an issue at all, even for the average knife user. I agree that something like Maxamet is not a good choice for most traditional folders or fixed blades, same goes for many of our modern super steels. They are not practical for the average person & hard to maintain without expensive equipment or a lot of sharpening experience. Its just that finding any decent traditional knife with a stainless blade in anything but 4116, 4034 or some dubious "MoVa" is really hard these days. I really dont count myself as a steel snob, but selling $200+ knives with 420 steel blades is not good value and simply behind the times, especially when a comparatively much better steel would cost them only cents more. Either that or go full traditional with something like a 1095.
 
Enzo’s Woodshop said:
420HC and 4116 have similar abrasion resistance, but 420HC is significantly tougher.

This is Larrin’s chart. 420HC and 4116 are the two left-most steels on the chart, but the difference in toughness is serious.

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This is such an informative chart! People can crap on 420HC all they want because it's not the new "super" flavor of the year, but I am impressed. This makes sense because the destruction tests you've seen on the Buck Nighthawk or 119 is about as impressive as it gets. I was interested in that new Ontario SPL Pack Knife in Magnacut, but at this point I will never get rid of my Buck 650 and 655 Nighthawk's. Stupid of Buck to discontinue them and really stupid of our incompetent military not issue them as their primary knife. In addition, because the Nighthawk's are in 420HC, they are also excellent dive knives.
 
ChrisLee said:
I have a Joker Nomad in N695 steel with a convex edge. It is deceptively sharp. So far it has been a great knife. Really good build quality. However 420hc would make me think twice before buying. There are better steels.
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People can crap on 420HC all they want because it's not the new "super" flavor of the year, but I am impressed by Larrin's toughness chart. This makes sense because the destruction tests on the Buck Nighthawk or 119 is about as impressive as it gets. I was interested in that new Ontario SPL Pack Knife in Magnacut, but at this point I will never get rid of my Buck 650 and 655 Nighthawk's. Stupid of Buck to discontinue them and really stupid of our incompetent military not issue them as their primary knife. Not only is 420HC easy to sharpen in the field and tough, they are also excellent dive knives. Buck obviously knows how to heat treat.
 
Ruger 44 Redhawk said:
People can crap on 420HC all they want because it's not the new "super" flavor of the year, but I am impressed by Larrin's toughness chart. This makes sense because the destruction tests on the Buck Nighthawk or 119 is about as impressive as it gets. I was interested in that new Ontario SPL Pack Knife in Magnacut, but at this point I will never get rid of my Buck 650 and 655 Nighthawk's. Stupid of Buck to discontinue them and really stupid of our incompetent military not issue them as their primary knife. Not only is 420HC easy to sharpen in the field and tough, they are also excellent dive knives. Buck obviously knows how to heat treat.
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Your post was profound for me, as I'm also a HUGE fan of Buck's 420HC.

I have Magnacut and AEB-L stuff...not because I went seeking them out, but because that is what their respective Manufacturers offered. And, while I like them, I'm not exactly blown-away by them, like some folks. I still love my tried & true 420HC "Buck" stuff. Buck's 420HC has become the "benchmark" by which I judge ALL other stainless steels. I can use the hell out of my Bucks, leave 'em soaking in a coffee cup overnight, wash them late the next afternoon, and not see even a bit of staining/patina. Beyond that, I can touch their edges up in seconds.

Like my TOPS 1095 and Becker/Ka-bar 1095 "Cro-Van" stuff, the Buck 420HC stuff is neither fancy, new, nor "fashionable" anymore. However, for me, all of 'em just work. I've beaten and abused my Bucks, TOPS, and Beckers in a fashion that NO knives deserve...and they just keep coming-back begging for more.


I'm a pragmatist/empiricist. I judge all my knives by how they've worked for me in the field, and under the "moon & stars".

In that realm, my 420HC Bucks are the Kings of stainless steel knives.



*Your mileage may vary.
 
Nothing wrong with this,quality is pretty good,buck 420hc is good,but others like Case stainless,MAM knives 420 ,make excellent edc knives.
 
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Some of these basic steels perform better than people think...nothing wrong even with plain 420 steel,krupp steels,mov etc...theyre easier to sharpen and hold decent edge,are easy to touch up on any kind of ceramics or sharpening steel.Joker makes excellent knives for price,some are in 12c27,sone in n690,and most in molybden/vanadium -420 variant,well made knives overall.
 
Wusthoff runs their steel little harder thsn victorinox ,henckels,zwilling,and thus it holds edge little better,but theres absolutely nothing wrong with this steel,i love victorinox kitchen and pocket knives.
 
There is nothing wrong with any steel as long as it performs it chosen tasks. 420hc has better corrosion resistance than 440c. 440c and 420hc sharpen about the same but 440c has much better edge retention. It is my personal preference after owning and using both of these steels I would choose 440c everyday of the week. Your mileage may be different than mine and that is ok. I love my Joker Nomad bushcraft knife. It is N695. Which is an improved version of 440c. Joker makes good knives. I’m sure they have their reason for choosing the steels they use in their knives. In Europe these lower grade steels are common….. or it could be kinda like a restaurant that got a special price on a lot of Brussels sprouts. Brussels sprouts are good for you but nobody wants to eat them. I guess the real question is how much time you want to spend sharpening your knife so you can eat your Brussels sprouts.
 
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What bugs me about Joker is that they will offer a knife in 4116, but then sell the exact same model with more modern looking handle scales (like G10 or micarta) in 14c28n.
The fancier horn or stag handled versions will get the softer steel. HUH? Surely it would be cheaper in production to just make all blades out of 14c28n in the first place. I mean, common.
 
ChrisLee said:
There is nothing wrong with any steel as long as it performs it chosen tasks. 420hc has better corrosion resistance than 440c. 440c and 420hc sharpen about the same but 440c has much better edge retention. It is my personal preference after owning and using both of these steels I would choose 440c everyday of the week. Your mileage may be different than mine and that is ok. I love my Joker Nomad bushcraft knife. It is N695. Which is an improved version of 440c. Joker makes good knives. I’m sure they have their reason for choosing the steels they use in their knives. In Europe these lower grade steels are common….. or it could be kinda like a restaurant that got a special price on a lot of Brussels sprouts. Brussels sprouts are good for you but nobody wants to eat them. I guess the real question is how much time you want to spend sharpening your knife so you can eat your Brussels sprouts.
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Agreed. I do love my three dot 1980-81 110's in 440C. Not sure why they switched to 420HC. But Buck and Paul Bos sure do it well.
 
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