Jungle Knives, Quick!!!

B

Brad Justice

Joined
Oct 5, 1999
Messages
14
I'm planning a trip to Venezuela in South America, and I need a knife that will serve as the one tool that will serve as everything. I know I need something large and am willing to accept the compromise of fine cutting capability for the option to hack apart anything I need to. I think I want a blade from talonite because when I was down there last time, everything I had rusted, and I'm obsessive about keeping my knives clean. I own a Reeve P1 and I know that will rust faster than a speeding bullet. A little help will be appreciated!
 
Well, Rob Simonich is the only guy I know of making large blades in Talonite. I believe his waiting list is pretty long, but it's worth calling him. JEff Randall is a big supporter of Newt Livesay's larger knives like the RCM and the RTAK. They have Kydex sheaths which helps with the corrosion problem a bit. 1095, even parkerized, though, will need care.
Another alternative is Roass Aki's machetes, which he makes in several forms from ATS-34 with several thicknesses, and with Kydex sheaths. They are sweet and priced right, too. Check his webpage out on the links page of Bladeforums, or follow this link: http://www.ilhawaii.net/~knives

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
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On Two Wheels
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Save your money - you might need it to get out of the country
smile.gif
especially if you're going deep or near Colombia.

Spend 15 bucks for an 18" Ontario machete and don't worry about the rust. Spend another 10 bucks on a WalMart diamond hone and your good to go.

If you must spend more....buy 2 Ontarios and keep one oiled up so you can take it out and see a blade that hasn't rusted, or back it up with a reasonably priced sheath blade, or better yet take a good pocket folder.

If you're going to the jungle, you will be bush blading it a lot more than you will be chopping logs. Stay away from the thick bladed indestructible pieces and go with a good cutter. Machete, machete, machete - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Jeez, Jeff........
gotta say it is really enlightening to read posts from someone who has seen the elephant....or the capybara (sp ?)
smile.gif


No, really....keep coming here, PLEASE , mate!

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Brian W E
ICQ #21525343
I think :therefore, I am......I think

 
Agree on the Coleman machete. You do better whacking with the spine than the edge - literally.

Maybe this is a completely dumb question, but why does everyone worry so much about rust on a blade designed to be used in serious wilderness (talking fixed blades here)? I can understand trying to minimize rusting, but why is it such a concern, especially for folks who plan on going to serious bush and need a blade they can use without worry of cosmetics. If you're actually using the blade enough while you're there, rust won't be a problem on the edge. Trust me on that. A work blade's not an electonic tool.

Personally, if it's a choice between sacrificing ANY efficiency for corrosion resistance, I ain't gonna do it. (here go the dissertations about rust decreasing efficiency) Second, I refuse to pay more money simply for corrosion resistance when the chore may get done just as efficiently with a cheaper tool.

Not trying to take away from Rob's Talonite, I suspect he would also tell you that you can spend a lot less money and do what you need to do in the jungle. Hell, I'd like to sell you an RTAK, but if you're just going to spend a few weeks in the jungle and not planning in serious wilderness trips afterwards, there's no sense in spending the money.

To me this is like buying 200 dollar Gore-Tex shoes to go wading waist deep in a swamp - useless.

Of course I realize this all revolves around personal preference and someone's bankroll -
but sometimes I believe blade folks just enjoy spending more money without good reason - me included
smile.gif


rant over - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
I'll guess most don't like to see rust on their knives as they're purchased as a 'fine tool' as opposed to just a tool. I try to take care of all of my tools but my shovels, axes, chisels, wrenches, etc., will get some rust once in awhile, and I'll usually scrub it off with some scotchbrite or other abrasive soaked in some oil, often WD40, and then wipe it down. It works on old tools purchased at garage sales and such, as long as no one stored it in water or something. If one spends a bunch of money on a heavy duty carbon or tool steel knife one doesn't like to see it get rusty or dirty, even if it doesn't affect function and it's designed to be used roughly, not unlike trying to keep a firearm rust free. I guess that's the fundamental difference between a tool that is a 'user' as opposed to a 'collectable'.

 
I agree to everything but I want a knife that will last forever. I am most likely going to live down there for good, and quality knives are VERY hard to find down there. Thanks for all your help!!!
 
Brad,

Dr. Ron Hood has had some experience with a wide variety of blades in a jungle environment too ranging from cheap machettes to Busse's big INFI blade to Cold Steel's Trailmaster to some custom pieces and so on. He seems pretty sold on what Rob Simonich has made for him recently. You might want to check Ron's site for his observations and Rob's for what he makes.

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-=[Bob Allman]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute
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......... National Rifle Association
......... Praire Thunder Inc.
......... Rapid City Rifle Club
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pending: Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!

 
Concerning the cheap machetes, I can't see any reason to buy them except that they are cheap. Check out the recent review which compares a RCM to an Ontario and the RCM came out strongly across the board (surprised me) :

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000928.html

I have worked in some not so comfortable enviroments before and at some high strain jobs. When I could upgrade my tools to significantly effect my work rate or comfort level I did it whenever possible.

It would be an interesting choice between the 1/16" Aki ATS-34 machetes and the RCM compared in the above review. You however would have to know much about what you would be cutting to make the right choice there.

-Cliff
 
"Concerning the cheap machetes, I can't see any reason to buy them except that they are cheap."

That's a nice blanket statement.

Cliff, not doubting your blade experience at all, but you've obviously never bushwhacked through a whole lot of tropical vegetation.

The RCM is an excellent piece and will out-chop a thinner 'cheap machete' on larger and harder material, but it's no match for typical tropical vegetation when cutting trail or slashing vines along tributaries out of a moving boat.

Having said that, if I only had the choice between an RCM and a cheap machete, I would take the RCM because it crosses over for all types of work, but if there's an RCM and an Ontario laying in the botom of the boat and a hoard of vines coming up, I'll pick up the Ontario. - Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Jeff :

if there's an RCM and an Ontario laying in the botom of the boat and a hoard of vines coming up, I'll pick up the Ontario.
Click to expand...

So you are saying the Ontario's are better cutters than the RCM on light-moderate vegetation? Matthew's review in the above link describes the opposite. He found the RCM would outcut the Ontario even on light grass, let alone stiffer material. See the above link for more detail and discussion on the results.

-Cliff
 
That's EXACTLY what I'm saying and this comes from someone who literally loves his RCM and put it through the paces in the jungle. It works extremely well, but the Ontario will beat it in normal jungle vegetation and lose to it when the chores get heavier.

Again, with a choice of one (1) blade, I will choose the RCM.

I'm not talking heavy chopping here, I'm talking about cutting 3/4" and smaller vines, secondary jungle growth, and broad leaf vegetation and being able to do this *easily* in one smooth cuting stroke, since traveling waterways doesn't give you time to hack in a moving boat with vines about to wrap you up.

It's pure physics. The Ontario's edge is much thinner than the RCM. To me this is about like comparing straight razors to butcher knives. You could shave with both but which is going to be more efficient?

With a choice of one, I would rather have the butcher knife since it's capable of more chores, but the razor's gonna shave hair better.

There seems to be a real fad in knives nowadays that more expensive is better. For the most part that may be true, but there are areas that ii absolutley does not apply. Sorry, but that's the real world.

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Jeff,

Based on your advice, I put my lust for a RTAK and an RCM on hold for awhile. Still want one or the other but am willing to wait.

Been wanting something a bit heavier around here. I've got an 18" Barteaux machete with an aluminum handle that I've used for many years. It's a real chopper, but heavy to wield. I used it to chop down a bunch of trees in a research stand of pines I was working in but the metal handle doesn't provide much cushion and my arm goes numb after a day of heavy chopping.

Anyway, I ordered a 12" ontario just for the fun of it and a Fallkniven A1 to fill in the gaps. I'm curious to know if you've used the 12" ontario. I think your review was for the 18" wasn't it?

Also, have you looked at the Barteaux machetes? I have a catalog coming and will probably order a couple of new ones. They've changed the handle on their machetes to some kind of plastic I believe. If the blade is the same as the old one, it's pretty awesome (but heavy and thick). I've used mine a lot and treated it like a farm tool and it's yet to rust. Most of the stains on the blade are dried blood from slaughtering chickens. Not a sign of rust on it and I bought it used at a flea market some 15 years ago and the blade has rarely been wiped clean and never oiled.


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Hoodoo

Cogita tute
 
Addendum:

Actually, when I say the blade on my Barteaux is heavy and thick, it actually only SEEMS that way. The thickness is actually around 1/8" or maybe even less. Still, this thing has a heftiness to it. The width of it is 1 7/8" at the handle to 2 5/16 to the point before it tapers into a tanto point.

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Hoodoo

Cogita tute
 
Hi Hoodoo,

If you're just doing light chopping and brush clearing around the house, the 18" Ontario works real good. I've got 5 or 6 of these things and I keep them sharp. I don't have a favorite out of the crowd and just use whichever is sharper or handy at the moment.

I sharpen cheap machetes on a bench belt sander with a worn out belt, works good as long as you don't hold them down too long and get them too hot. In the jungle I use a flat diamond hone...takes a little longer but does the job.

I haven't used the 12" too much so I can't comment. An acquaintance of mine, Morgan Smith, swears by a 12" machete for jungle use. Morgan knows his stuff too, since he's run over 50 expeditions into SA and also set up several foreign government jungle survival training schools.

I haven't used the Barteaux at all. If you're going to move on to heavier chopping, then a heavier blade like the RTAK or RCM and others on the market work well for this. The handles on most of these custom machetes are also a lot more comfortable.

I think Steve Dick said it best in his latest article concerning big blades. The RTAK and others like it are designed as 'Trail Blades' - I think of them as a crossover between a machete and a useable work knife.

I've never had a lot of fatigue problems with the Ontario when using them for their designed work but if you get to bangin' in heavy stuff you will feel the shock.

A lot of folks try to use a machete the same way they do regular knives. In my opinion, it's a totally different concept. When you watch the Indians of SA use them, they always take a full swing with the spine of the machete almost laying on their back when they start the motion. Not a hard fast swing, but a long, smooth, full motion swing.

I've also seen them mow grass with these things...amazing.

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
I finally got to look at a Barteaux at a local hardware store. It was an 18in blade with the D type plastic handle, and was fairly flexible. As I recall they're 0.09in thick. A 15in blade seemed like it would have felt better balanced, wouldn't have been as floppy, and yet would still offer a decent reach, but that's just an impression and not based upon any use.
 
I bought a 22" Barteaux with an orange handle at Home Depot a few years ago to use around the yard here in South Florida.

Its too thick to cut through light vegetation. I shortened the blade to 18" and rebeveled it with a belt sander. Its still too thick and wants to split material rather than cut through.

I bought a very thin, cheap wood handle, no name at the local hardware store that works great.

Thinner = Better for soft tropical vegetation.


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Dan Harris
danharris@ibm.net
 
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