Just got my Buck/Mayo 172 - Nice indeed but some issues make me wonder

might as well put in my gripe. I do like my knife and the lock engages about 90% but I would have prefered the 25% you have to compensate for wear. The tip of my blade is also misaligned and I noticed too much grind on the left side(viewed from back of blade) making the blade tip look bent towards the left. I have a lot cheaper knives made much better. I have another one coming in and hopefully much improved? Anybody at Buck: would you refinish(rebead-blast) my knife handle if I do some filework and reshaping ? I can think of new ideas to make it fit my hands better. Thanks. dannyv
 
Originally posted by mschwoeb
One of the main causes of bend in the blade is memory from the steel rolls that the steel arrives in. The steel "remembers" the rolled form, and it is not completely even out.

The blades are laser cut, and then have several stages before they have the edge ground. I dont know that the grinding would really cause that kind of a bend. Maybe when Joe gets back he can enlighten us.
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It seems unlikely to me that the bend in Klaus's blade is due to steel "memory". IIRC Buck buys its 420HC in rolls and the blades that are fine blanked from these rolls are sometimes subject to that sort of minor deformation. However, their premium steels come to them in plate form and the blades are laser cut from these plates and should not be subject to "memory". This was true for ATS-34 and BG-42 and I think that it should be true for S30V also.
 
I'm going to repeat what everyone else is saying... the blade looks messed up, but the lockup is good! Hope you get taken care of :)
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Sorry to disagree with what everyone else is saying :grumpy:

I did some really mild spinwhack tests against wood on my knife and it fails every single time - at latest on the second hit - only when I move the Ti lock bar over the tang forcefully with my thumb to get some better overlap it will last some more hits - and fail too :mad:

I would **guestimate** that the Ti lock bar on mine is just too less "bent" towards the tang so even when forcing it over it tries to get back in its almost-not-engaged position and therefor doesn´t properly lock up. I will need to go out and get the right sized torx tool to open it up and see where the Ti lock bar ends up on its own - I would **think** that this is the root cause of the problem.

I would encourage everyone with similar minor lock overlap to do some mild spinewhacking of his own to see if you have the same problem or if mine is a single lemon having gone through. Not bashing the knife or the company / designer - keep in mind this is the first production run and things can happen - don´t anyone judge the knife based on this single "lemon" please - I´m shure Tom Mayo and the great people at Buck will make it perfect next time.

Oh and did I mention that I absolutely love this knife - I think with some minor adjustments (stamp, clip, bent tips, lock failures) Buck and Mayo not only have a real winner but possibly the best knife all around - at least for me :D

Klaus
 
After getting some 6 and 8 sized Torx bits I worked a bit on my 172 and the Ti lock bar really was just a bit too less "bent" I would say - I just bent it over a bit more and after putting the knife back together (not forgetting to modify the clip as well) it did lock up better and the spinewhack testing improved a lot. The lock bar still doesn´t move over a lot more but it seems the bit more does work better already - and breaking in more it should get better still I think. The clip works better now too :D

And thanks to Buck for using good screws - after I screwed up another knife trying to open it and rounding all of the torx screws on it I was really careful and warned - but on the Buck/Mayo today I managed to almost break the torx bits I just bought and the screws still look like new - much better this way I think - and I did buy the "good" torx bits - at least they where the expensive ones :(

And it was a pleasure to disassemble and reassemble the knife - in my eyes the simplicity and perfect design of it is just marvelous - I really liked the knife from the first picture I saw, when I got it in my hands for the first time it was love at first sight - and it still grows on me :D

Klaus
 
I had a few conversations with Mr. Mayo about lock coverage verses lock strength. The photo below will show all that "coverage" does not make a stronger lock.

The large TNT (as seen in the photo) has very little "coverage" (IMHO) but was able to "spine wack" my table to death...


Mr. Mayo was right again!

Michael


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Hmmh, interesting, attmitedly I have no real understanding nor experience on lock strength vs lock overlap and in no way will doubt what Mr. Mayo is saying PERIOD

My only issue was that after I finally got the courage to "spine whack" my knife it just plainly failed on me.

And I just hit slightly - the marks on your table show that you used much much more force than I did - I was very mild.

Thanks for your insight

Klaus

BTW - is this an original Mayo TNT on the left and a Buck/Mayo on the right ? I think I like the clip on the left side much better :D
 
The memory from coiling steel is easy to remove with a low tempreature heat treatment called "stress relieving". The is very commonly done to steel parts to prevent warping or movement after machining.

The Hardening process is also important, if the blades are carefully handled and placed on a flat ceramic surface while in the furnace they are much less likely to warp. The tempering process in heat treatment may also induce warping.

Quality control and inspection prior to final assembly and shipping is the best prevention for the noted problems.

Regards,
FK

BCC #544 Life Member
 
The spine whack test is not really much of a test of anything except how much tension is on the lock. Especially in a frame lock where you have a substantial lock face. As you have seen, by taking the knife apart and merely bending the lock in a bit the pressure on the lock bar is increased dramatically. Knives are not made to be whacked on the top of the blade, and when it is done repeatedly the vibration from the first whack causes the lockup to change and then can cause it to come loose. Rather take the knife between your fingers and push down. I designed the TNT to have the lock engage right at 35% of the blade tang. That allows for plenty of contact and for wear without ever having to worry about the lock falling all the way across the blade tang and coming loose, that is a big failure in my mind that a lot of knife companies do not address when making liners that go past midpoint on the blade tang from the get go........

I hope that you get a blade that is perfectly straight......it should be and should sit dead in the middle. The one that they sent me is perfect in every way. Blade sits dead on in the middle, it opens and shuts as smoothly as one of my customs, the unlocking/locking mechanism is as good as I could ever hope for, and the knife came as sharp as I have ever seen a factory blade.


GOOD JOB GUYS, you deserve a hand!!
 
I'm still waiting for mine, The lock, clip and stamp are of little concern to me, but that uneven grind and bent tip? We'll just have to wait and see. :confused:
 
BTW - is this an original Mayo TNT on the left and a Buck/Mayo on the right ? I think I like the clip on the left side much better
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Both knives are Mayo TNT's: medium on the right and large on the left. (The large did the damage to my table...) The medium is my EDC... and the clip is perfect! I only carry the large TNT when I go to church... which isn't that often!:)

My point in posting was that I too had questions on lock coverage vs strength when I got my knife from Tom, but my concerns were unfounded....

Can't wait to get my paws on a Buck/Mayo, but they do seem hard to find! :grumpy: :grumpy:

Michael
 
@Michael,

even with those little issues I would say the Buck/Mayo is worth pretty much every effort to get one - highly recommended - I still can´t decide whether I really want to sent it in or not - don´t want to be without it anymore :cool:

@armsraised

I agree that lock, clip and stamp are of little concern - but still I hope the good people at Buck will fix those for the next runs to make the knife even better though. And regarding the bent tip I might speculate that with the announced Shot Show timeframe and too much pressure from us pushing to get the first ones in our hands one or the other might just have slipped through in sup-optimal condition. I don´t sweat in any way that Buck won´t fix it or won´t make it right for you as well in the unlikely case there might be another slip.

@Tom

thank you very much for your feedback - your explanation very much makes sense and perfectly fits with my gained experience as well - let me repeat that I never doubted the integrity or superior design of your product or yourself (oh my - sounds like big time brown-nosing already - nono - not trying to get on "the list" - yet :D )

Klaus
 
With regard to the spine whack test: it's true that (most)folders aren't designed to be stressed behind the blade, but it's also true that, when cutting, unexpected things can happen. No lock is sure proof against accidental closure, but I'd still like for the lock to function as well as possible.

The spine whack is by no means the definitive test for frame locks and liner locks (I don't feel it to be appropriate for lockbacks), but it does give you an idea of what to expect from your knife. I don't advocate hard spine whacks, but a light - to - moderate whacking, in my eyes, does not constitute abuse.

I had a nice liner lock that held up great under the harder spine whacks, but failed repeated when subjected to light - to - moderate blows against my palm. Go figure.

Anyway, I just thought I'd report that my Buck/Mayo held up great under the light - to - moderate spine whack test. The blade didn't budge. I'm very pleased with my knife, but some of the posts here indicate that Buck may have a problem getting consistently good results; I hope they'll be able to iron out the inconsistencies as production continues.
 
Just a short update on my "lemon":

I had been in contact with Joe to get a replacement for my 172 and while they had been scarce I today got an email that he finally found one for me - thanks Joe !

Actually I even asked Joe to give me a good price on this "lemon" to keep it as my "beater" but the price he could offer me wasn´t exactly inside my "beater" / "bent tip" budget range - made me wonder but what do I know.

I will keep the forum posted on how my new one will look like and hopefully I will get one with the nice box too.

Klaus
 
SO.... Does anyone have these in stock? Or they still as hard to find as hen's teeth??!!!

Michael
:confused: :confused:
 
I today got my 172 Buck/Mayo back from repair but I´m not happy

While Buck replaced the blade (no bent tip anymore) it still has blade play - no longer lateral but vertical

I might need to add that when trying to fix the "lemons" failure on the moderate spinewhacking I either ended up with a wobbly blade (lateral), more spinewhack failures or a knife causing blisters when repeatedly opening it.

2 months after initially getting the "lemon" in the first place I still have no knife living up to the initial hype :mad:

But thanks to Joe who took very nice care of me I got one of those beautiful black Buck/Mayo boxes :)

And one more comment to Tom Mayo and others who posted that tang/blade overlap isn´t directly related to spinewhack failures and solid lockup - how true you are - the knife I got back overlaps almost 100% which obviously doesn´t help :grumpy:

Unhappy Klaus :(

Humm - it even failed a modest spinewhack on the first hit too :rolleyes: :grumpy: :rolleyes:
 
I've sent back THREE . . . to make a long story short, they don't meet my expectations. Having handled a perfect 172 at Knife Expo, I'm not settling for anything less. Jeff Hubbard, you should be receiving my third 172 shortly :( . I will not hesitate to keep sending them back until Buck gets mine right.
 
Steel, sent you an e-mail.
I'm out of the office Wed through Sunday, so If I don't answer until monday, that is why..

Jeff
 
I have been carrying a 172 now for about a month and unlike some of you, mine was perfect when I received it. I also do have a few gripes but not show stoppers:

1) The clip had to be bent to use it (caused a little scratch which ticked me off)

2) The oval hole should be rounded so it isn't sharp on your thumb when opening.

3) The lock disengagment is a bit stiff, alot stiffer then the actual Mayo. It does ease up a bit with continued use.

Other then the above small gripes, this knife is absolutely great. It has to be one of the best true production knives that I have carried for an extended period of time.

For those of you that don't have a custom Mayo, and don't want to spend the kind of money necessary to buy one on the secondary market, This knife is very satisfying. One day I will own a true Mayo, but until that happens, I will be very happy carrying this version.

Definately worth getting one !!!! :)
 
Originally posted by bob_glassman
Other then the above small gripes, this knife is absolutely great. It has to be one of the best true production knives that I have carried for an extended period of time.
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Bob,

you bet I would be very happy to have a "good" one too - and I still stand by my own words earlier in this thread that the knife is highly recommended - at least unless you get a lemon like I did :( and still do :mad:

And regarding the "bit stiff" lock disengagment - mine is very stiff already even not locking up properly and after trying to break it in to no avail I have the blisters and horny skin back I had last time already using this knife.

I spent quite some time yesterday fiddling with the stop pin but couldn´t find a proper position helping the knife to lock up properly - I stopped short of disassembling the knife over and over to modify the lock bar position bending it further in like last time as with the lock overlapping almost 100% already and being stiff enough too I guess I wouldn´t have managed to find a satisfying compromise between secure lock, safe operation and ease of use - I think these handles had been doomed from the beginning as was the blade too and the whole knife should have been replaced.

Back to my trusty 20 USD Kershaw/Onion Vapor as EDC for now - solid lockup, no blade wobble, easy to open/close too - so far no advantage for the 10x price knife :confused:

Klaus
 
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