Just got this note from one of our distributors

[Morrow]

There is always Wenger.
Besides, ever since the Leatherman type mulit-tools gained popularity, the "swiss army" style knives have been rendered virtually obsolete.
This of course is just my opinion.

Victorinox owns Wenger. Virutually obsolete? I think Victorinox would be shocked to hear that considering the number of knives they sell every year.

 

[texastonydobbs]

There is always Wenger.
Besides, ever since the Leatherman type mulit-tools gained popularity, the "swiss army" style knives have been rendered virtually obsolete.
This of course is just my opinion.

I edc a LM WAVE ,SAK "Hiker" and Izula Daily and I find they compliment each other more so than one obsolete...

 

[MIL-OPS KNIFE CO.]

Victorinox owns Wenger. Virutually obsolete? I think Victorinox would be shocked to hear that considering the number of knives they sell every year.

Did they say anywhere that they would be pulling all of their sub-brands or only the product labeled as Victorinox? There are many companies that restrict the sale of certain products to their parent sites while others are released to retailers and sub-sites. The Wenger sales weren't mentioned in the retailer statement so it was my belief that point may have held some amount of validity.

As for the issue of the S/A knives being obsolete in my personal opinion, I feel very comfortable saying that my SOG Powerlock would remain on my person even if the attempt was made to barter it away from me with the promise of a case of swiss army style knives. I don't believe that anything that Victorinox does will affect the outdoor knife community much more than to increase sales for other companies such as Case, KaBar, Buck and Kershaw.

 

[Jake Bauer]

That sucks. Is this kind of what Benchmade did?

 

[Wanderlust]

that suck's , I like Victorinox and yet this pisses me off !

my sentiments exactly!

 

[TLR]

Doesn't that eliminate price gauging? For instance, there is a dealer here who sells Lone Wolf. I bought one from him that was marked up well over $100 what the suggested retail is on their website. I bought it through him because I can't get autos online.

On the other hand he also carries William Henry. They set the prices, so wherever I go a 500$ Pitaki will always be $500. They still make a decent profit, they just don't get to set the price.

Or maybe I am just understanding it incorrectly.

Generally no. Even though WH sets the prices in most cases it just means that they can't charge less. If they want to sell for more that's generally not a concern with the companies that set the MSRP or MAP. They just want a cap that limits the bottom dollar that authorized dealers can sell it for. That may not always be the case but is what I understand the industry standard to be in these situations.

Bose audio is a great example of this as dealers can't mark down the items (generally even when going out of business) or put those items on sale but they can mark them up if they so choose.

 

[survivaledge]

This is not the first time that this has been tried and the knife industry is not the only one to have to deal with this. I am in the automotive parts industry and this was tried several years ago by several well known manufacturers and sellers were forced to conform or loose the distribution. after a while these manufacturers abandoned the MAP policy because firstly they thought that there inflated prices allowed for the competition (and everybody has competition not only for the brand but the almighty dollar)to undercut them and secondly distributors tended to sell comparable products cheaper and undermined the MAP program. so it collapsed.
we did not give up the distribution we went along with it and let the customer choose offering alternative choices.when the manufacturer sees he is loosing market share he will stop.

 

[Tripton]

Did they say anywhere that they would be pulling all of their sub-brands or only the product labeled as Victorinox? There are many companies that restrict the sale of certain products to their parent sites while others are released to retailers and sub-sites. The Wenger sales weren't mentioned in the retailer statement so it was my belief that point may have held some amount of validity.

As for the issue of the S/A knives being obsolete in my personal opinion, I feel very comfortable saying that my SOG Powerlock would remain on my person even if the attempt was made to barter it away from me with the promise of a case of swiss army style knives. I don't believe that anything that Victorinox does will affect the outdoor knife community much more than to increase sales for other companies such as Case, KaBar, Buck and Kershaw.

Ever held a Swisstool? Pretty much makes a Powerlock obsolete.

 

[52100]

I love Forschner kitchen knives, and think they're the best bang for the buck, hands down. I'll still buy 'em as I need, but I'll support Leatherman for my multi-tool needs. I think MAP is a steaming pile of anti-capitalist BS. So while Victorinox can do as they see fit, so can I.

 

[Shotgun]

There's no such thing as a "free market" fellas. Let them do what ever they want. Buy there knives or don't. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[R.A.T.]

True, while there is no such thing as a real Ludwig von Mises Free Market system, I still like to support companies that at least maintain some symblance of the principles of Free Market. But that's just me

 

[Shotgun]

What we could do is declare war on victorinox and invade. Then we can dictate their policy ourselves. A portion of the pillaging goes to me of course for the idea.

 

[DH1]

Burning bridges is always a great business decision:thumbup::thumbup:


Seriously though, I thought Vic knives and tools were very fairly priced through the "usual" sources.

This can only help sales of the ESEE/DPX multitool when and if it ever goes into production.

 

[ironmike86]

True, while there is no such thing as a real Ludwig von Mises Free Market system, I still like to support companies that at least maintain some symblance of the principles of Free Market. But that's just me

Me to. I also support good stores,goods and fair trade,support ect and will spend a little more for such practices.

 

[Dizwolf]

eh, Apple has insanely strict pricing policies, and it seems to be working out ok for them.

MAP may be a pain in the ass, but I'm guessing it's actually designed to help brick and mortar sales. If people are buying tons of them online, through fly by night shops getting small profits, then sporting goods stores are going to stop stocking them. Vic may not trust the stability of said fly by night websites that make profits by volume sales. If they're trying to drive people to buy at local stores to maintain a stable market for their product.... I can't really blame them.

Another thing I've seen a lot of in computers and camera gear lately is the 'add to cart to see price' deals. fairly standard workaround.

 

[TKAZ]

Yeah I got that same email, he's a funny guy to talk with on the phone. he really says it like it is and doesn't hold punches. from what I'm hearing and hoping myself that this is going to hurt Victorinox big time and maybe they will reverse this new policy. I hope.

 

[viva la]

Generally no. Even though WH sets the prices in most cases it just means that they can't charge less. If they want to sell for more that's generally not a concern with the companies that set the MSRP or MAP.

May not be the same thing than...WH sets the prices, if they say sell the knife at $500 the dealer sells the knife at $500. If they don't and WH finds out they are selling it higher, or lower, they will pull their stuff from the dealer.

I think as a consumer it's a great idea. I don't have to shop around for the best price, wherever I go I will pay the same for their stuff...

 

[ron_m80]

I grabbed a soldier model right before they discontinued them, and started etching the blades with production count numbers. My local knife store said that they were acting strange or something to the effect, though i doubt this is what they meant.

Maybe its time for something other than a classical looking folder to be made in america, and be of higher quality than the old military utility folder. A "DPX utility folder" something along the lines of the old soldier model?

 

[Morrow]

Did they say anywhere that they would be pulling all of their sub-brands or only the product labeled as Victorinox? There are many companies that restrict the sale of certain products to their parent sites while others are released to retailers and sub-sites. The Wenger sales weren't mentioned in the retailer statement so it was my belief that point may have held some amount of validity.

Victorinox and Forschner were mentioned specifically so I would assume Wegner will fall under the same policy. I could be completely wrong but the assumption from some dealers is the Wegner brand will be treated no differently than Vicorinox and Forschner going forward. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

From Esav's post, it sounds to me like one of their biggest dealers (Amazon) was bitching that someone was undercutting them by selling lower than what they are willing to.

While I generally don't like the idea of a manufacturer dictating prices, I also don't fully support a free economy, either. I support an ethical free economy. In a straight-up free economy, there's no room for ethics.

In a way, MAPs, when used correctly, keep competition alive. Look at it this way: you have examples of Wal-Marts moving into an area, and selling items not only below the cost for the local shops, but below their own cost. They can do this, because the sales from the other stores int he network make enough surplus. This drives the local businesses out of business. Then, that same Wal-Mart, free from competition, raises the prices for those items ABOVE what the locals used to sell them for, and you're screwed with having to pay it (and they are often riced just at the point that shipping for an internet purchase puts you over the Wal-mart price. So, they intentionally harm local business, stifle competition, with the intent of screwing their customers in the end. IMO, that is an unethical business practice.

Setting things like a MAP, means that a place can't use such tactics to drive their competition out of business. Now, they have to not only compete based on quality of products offered, but also on the service their business provides. And if you've been in a Wal-Mart type store, you know that service is the big thing they cut to lower their prices.

IMO, the consumer may see no change in the prices they pay, and may even see a DROP in prices, since the distributor "middleman" is cut out.

So, I just wanted to throw a possible alternative reason Victorinox MAY be doing this, giving them the benefit of the doubt as to trying to keep businesses competitive, stimulating a better buying atmosphere, and hopefully increasing sales, rather than just as the big ogre pushing around their distributors.