Just starting on first knife

A

ariochqw

Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
7
After reading on the forums for a while, I've decided to take the plunge and try my hand at making a knife. Although I made a mistake when I ordered my steel from NJSB, I ordered the .25" instead of the .187", but that's my fault. Next time I know to actually review the order. I went with 1084, because all the reviews on here say it is relatively easy to heat treat, but still strong. The plan is for this to be a tough, rugged knife that will see some abuse when out backpacking.

Either way here is the planned pattern.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-i-H11Sh4TUUU5xLVpSSHlIUjFubW5vZGxaQ25ZdEZSUzdR/view?usp=sharing

Any reccomendations on changes I should make before I cut it from the bar stock and begin shaping?
 
Since you are starting with steel thicker than intended, how about doing a modified full flat grind so the blade is around .187" where the scandi grind starts? You'll get the same cutting performance as you intended, but more spine for strength?

Otherwise, your scandi grind is going to have to go much higher to achieve the same edge angle you intended with your design.
 
I know you are excited to start and probably do not want to year this but you would he much better served maiing that out of 1/8" stock. Even if that meant you have to do it in 1080 (1084 is unavailable right now) All I make are scandi ground blades and I just dont see it working with 1/4" stock. It would cleave more than slice.
 
RX-79G said:
Since you are starting with steel thicker than intended, how about doing a modified full flat grind so the blade is around .187" where the scandi grind starts? You'll get the same cutting performance as you intended, but more spine for strength?

Otherwise, your scandi grind is going to have to go much higher to achieve the same edge angle you intended with your design.
Click to expand...

This is why I posted before cutting. :)
So essentially you are recommending it having 2 angles. Leave 1/2" for the spine, cut at an angle to bring it down to .187 at about the point I intended the scandi to start.
Kind of like the left most in this image:
http://home.comcast.net/~freilich/grinds.jpg

Would I be better served with a different grind altogether then?
 
Utican said:
I know you are excited to start and probably do not want to year this but you would he much better served maiing that out of 1/8" stock. Even if that meant you have to do it in 1080 (1084 is unavailable right now) All I make are scandi ground blades and I just don't see it working with 1/4" stock. It would cleave more than slice.
Click to expand...

Not really an option. I wont have the $$ to spare to order a new bar for several months. And since it was my error that got the 1/4", I'm not going to put the company out by trying to return it.
 
Since you have such thick steel I think you should do a full flat ground knife. It will be a much more efficient cutter. You will have a LOT of steel to remove though.

I like your design though. Good luck.
 
ariochqw said:
This is why I posted before cutting. :)
So essentially you are recommending it having 2 angles. Leave 1/2" for the spine, cut at an angle to bring it down to .187 at about the point I intended the scandi to start.
Kind of like the left most in this image:
http://home.comcast.net/~freilich/grinds.jpg

Would I be better served with a different grind altogether then?
Click to expand...

Actually, it would be more accurate to say the right half of the far right grind (but symmetrical). It was simply my suggestion to achieve the same look and cutting as the knife you drew without having to grind the stock down flat.

Another way to go would be a distal taper of the flats and a progressive edge angle that goes from obtuse to acute as it approaches the tip. Or you could combine the two, if you think you're up for it.

FFG is, of course, another great option. It will just come out looking different, but it will work very well. Probably the best use of thick stock.
 
S.Alexander said:
Since you have such thick steel I think you should do a full flat ground knife. It will be a much more efficient cutter. You will have a LOT of steel to remove though.

I like your design though. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks! While I like the look of what I drew, I'm definitely open to changing the grind. At least I'm willing to use a power tool for roughing the blade.

I really like the look of the blade you have as your avatar.
 
Hope you post some pics of the finished project. Maybe even a couple as you go along??:thumbup:
 
That knife profile you first posted would be fine with a full flat grind on the bevels. Might actually look really cool and would cut great.

Jay
 
My 2 cents here is to do a FFG to the top and zero on the edge. It may not be a Scandi but it will cut a heck of a lot better using 1/4 on a 1 1/4" tall piece of steel like RX-79G mentioned.

You can make your Scandi grind on the next one if you want. I make Culinary and hunters and a FFG to zero works great for both IMHO.

If you want to baton the crap out of the blade you may possibly have some chipping issues?
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
My 2 cents here is to do a FFG to the top and zero on the edge. It may not be a Scandi but it will cut a heck of a lot better using 1/4 on a 1 1/4" tall piece of steel like RX-79G mentioned.

You can make your Scandi grind on the next one if you want. I make Culinary and hunters and a FFG to zero works great for both IMHO.

If you want to baton the crap out of the blade you may possibly have some chipping issues?
Click to expand...

I don't under stand "ffg to the top and zero on the edge". I'm fine, skipping the scandi. Batoning is one of the abuses that it will be put through.
 
ariochqw said:
I don't under stand "ffg to the top and zero on the edge". I'm fine, skipping the scandi. Batoning is one of the abuses that it will be put through.
Click to expand...

I may not have explained that very clearly.
Full Flat Grind is to the spine or top and zero on the edge means that you take your 2-4 degree grind thats even on both sides to a sharp edge. No leaving 0.20 or 0.30 thousands at the edge.

Does that explain it a little better?
I do all of my bevel grinding post HT. If you are going to bevel grind and then HT. Go to 0.20 thousandths on the edge, and then Heat treat then grind it slowly dipping in water with a fresh 120 ceramic belt take the edge to zero.

You want to leave a little meat on the edge before HT so the blade doesn't warp or crack.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
I may not have explained that very clearly.
Full Flat Grind is to the spine or top and zero on the edge means that you take your 2-4 degree grind thats even on both sides to a sharp edge. No leaving 0.20 or 0.30 thousands at the edge.

Does that explain it a little better?
I do all of my bevel grinding post HT. If you are going to bevel grind and then HT. Go to 0.20 thousandths on the edge, and then Heat treat then grind it slowly dipping in water with a fresh 120 ceramic belt take the edge to zero.

You want to leave a little meat on the edge before HT so the blade doesn't warp or crack.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting a 6 degree inclusive edge on a 1084 knife?
 
OK, let me step in and try to explain it.

In a Full Flat Grind (FFG) the bevel goes from the spine to the edge in one flat plane. The edge is taken down to about .020" thick in most cases before HT. That makes a very low angle, usually around 7°, but it is the primary bevel, not the cutting edge. Once the knife is heat treated and re-sanded, the edge is about .010" thick or less. This is what is sharpened at the desired angle for the knife use. The edge angle can be as low as 7° per side ( about 15° inclusive) for slicers, to around 20° per side ( 40° inclusive) for a chopper. Most general use blades have a 15° per side edge ( 30° inclusive).

The lower the main blade bevel (FFG) the better the knife cuts. This is why the hollow grind some knives...to make cutting friction even less.

The edge angle is what does the cutting. It should be low enough to cut well, but high enough to not chip in use. Obviously, the intended use determines the edge angle.

On some very fine cutters, the main bevel is taken to a very thin edge after HT. This edge is sometimes less that .005". This is called a "near zero edge", as the edge is near .000" thick. The very low angle edge is then sharpened at the desired edge angle. These knives cut amazingly...but the edge is fragile.




Hop that helps.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
OK, let me step in and try to explain it.

In a Full Flat Grind (FFG) the bevel goes from the spine to the edge in one flat plane. The edge is taken down to about .020" thick in most cases before HT. That makes a very low angle, usually around 7°, but it is the primary bevel, not the cutting edge. Once the knife is heat treated and re-sanded, the edge is about .010" thick or less. This is what is sharpened at the desired angle for the knife use. The edge angle can be as low as 7° per side ( about 15° inclusive) for slicers, to around 20° per side ( 40° inclusive) for a chopper. Most general use blades have a 15° per side edge ( 30° inclusive).

The lower the main blade bevel (FFG) the better the knife cuts. This is why the hollow grind some knives...to make cutting friction even less.

The edge angle is what does the cutting. It should be low enough to cut well, but high enough to not chip in use. Obviously, the intended use determines the edge angle.

On some very fine cutters, the main bevel is taken to a very thin edge after HT. This edge is sometimes less that .005". This is called a "near zero edge", as the edge is near .000" thick. The very low angle edge is then sharpened at the desired edge angle. These knives cut amazingly...but the edge is fragile.




Hop that helps.
Click to expand...

Basically what Stacy just said, about a 15 degree inclusive FFG grind.

Also you are going to want to distal taper the blade meaning that the spine & blade will narrow as you go towards the tip. That will also help you with your 1/4" thickness
 
S.Alexander said:
Since you have such thick steel I think you should do a full flat ground knife. It will be a much more efficient cutter. You will have a LOT of steel to remove though.

I like your design though. Good luck.
Click to expand...

i looked at your site, nice. how do i bring out the grain in my ironwood ? ive got two scales unstabi... high figure thanks.
 
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