Just venting a bit

panch0

panch0

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,415
I was on another forum and asked a question about whether a potetial buyer would like to know whether a knife is a pre made one or is ground or forged. I started getting pms from one guy who makes kit knives and is passing them off as handmade. There is another who calls himself a master craftsman. I can't believe these cats. I am sure they will complain and maybe try and get me banned. This is the only online site I sell a knife if I have no buyer for one. They have been posting knives for sale and talking smack about carbon damascus, and carbon steels. I replied to one thread saying that each type has its advantages and disadvantages and the pms started rolling in as well. I guess I will keep my mouth shut next time.:o
 
Pancho

Give em hell! There is a guy in my town who has been passing off kits as handmade for years. When I first started I asked if he would help me out by showing me a few things. He agreed and gave me a blank with the bevels ground, holes drilled, and heat treated, with a 60 grit finish. The one spot he missed was at the bottom of the ricasso( polished and shiny). He took the polished blank and scratched it with 60 grit with that one exception and gave it to me to sand down to 600 grit. It took me a while to figure it out when I started to understand what was involved in knifemaking, like a belt grinder, and he didn't have one.

If you make kit knives just be up front about it. My first couple were kits and are a great way to start.
 
hey Pancho you should e mail me the forum name so I could start talking smack about the difference between building kit knives and making knives from bar/flat stock and raw handle material.

I also agree that making kit knives has its place but not telling the truth to customers is sucky.

PM's do not bother me cause they can report you all day long and as long as you state the facts in a non confrontational way who cares.

Please E mail me that forum name. I need something to do this weekend.
 
Last edited:
gixxer said:
hey Pancho you should e mail me the forum name so I could start talking smack about building kit knives and making knives from bar/flat stock and raw handle material.

I also agree that making kitknives has its place but not telling the truth to customers is sucky.

PM's do not bother me cause they can report you all day long and as long as you state the facts in a non confrontational way who cares.

Please E mail me that forum name. I need something to do this weekend.
Click to expand...

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1520641/Re_Custom_Knives
 
gixxer said:
hey Pancho you should e mail me the forum name so I could start talking smack about building kit knives and making knives from bar/flat stock and raw handle material.

I also agree that making kitknives has its place but not telling the truth to customers is sucky.

PM's do not bother me cause they can report you all day long and as long as you state the facts in a non confrontational way who cares.

Please E mail me that forum name. I need something to do this weekend.
Click to expand...
Not to start an argument, but what is wrong with stock removal? Or am I just reading your statement wrong. I am doing stock removal right now and its a far step from a kit knife. It is my pattern, I remove the metal with files most of the time not a belt grinder. I may not consider myself a maker yet but the knives I make are made completely by me.

Now someone making a knife from a kit and calling it theirs is just wrong and if I ever spent money on a knife thinking it was hand made and found out it was just hand finished I would be upset and looking for a refund.:mad:
 
Mike Quesenberry said:
...It took me a while to figure it out when I started to understand what was involved in knifemaking, like a belt grinder, and he didn't have one...
Click to expand...

No, you don't need a belt sander, it saves a lot of time but you don't need it. I may be a novice but that was the first thing I learned, you can do everything you need to with hand tools.

A disk sander makes it easier to get a good looking dovetail, and to get a good hollow grind you need a wheel of some sort, belt sanders are good for that- but so is a old school human-powered grinding wheel. You can do all of it without power tools.

But that's beside the point. Polishing an already-beveled kit blade and adding handles does not constitute a handmade knife.
 
I don't see anything wrong with using pre-ground blanks as long as a person is up front about it. It feels a little hinky to me when that information isn't offered up at the outset though.
 
I don't often reply to threads of this type, but in this case I have to voice my thoughts.

I get REALLY wrapped around the axle when someone is building knives with pre-made blades AND then passing them off as "custom" to the customer, without disclosure.

This is nothing short of being blatantly dishonest, and when the facts come to light, it damages the entire knifemaking world.

Don't get me wrong here....I often encourage new makers to purchase pre-made blades for the experience and practice of learning how to assemble a knife, but the line is crossed when someone starts selling such things without disclosure. That's a direct slap in the face to me, and anyone else who takes the time and effort to actually "build" a knife that they apply their name/mark to

If the folks on that forum that Frank mentioned get riled up over his question, that just tells me they are hiding something, or have a guilty conscience.
 
unky_gumbi said:
Not to start an argument, but what is wrong with stock removal? Or am I just reading your statement wrong. I am doing stock removal right now and its a far step from a kit knife. It is my pattern, I remove the metal with files most of the time not a belt grinder. I may not consider myself a maker yet but the knives I make are made completely by me.

Now someone making a knife from a kit and calling it theirs is just wrong and if I ever spent money on a knife thinking it was hand made and found out it was just hand finished I would be upset and looking for a refund.:mad:
Click to expand...

Nah bro we are on the same page, I should have worded it different. I meant the differences between the two. I also am a stock removal maker.
 
Hi Pancho , There are a lot of folks out there with no integrity. The good news is though that those who really appreciate knives will learn who is the fake or not .

My wife worked with a guy years ago who laughed at me for working so hard to make a hand made knife when he could build one for $27.00 from a kit . Well two weeks later he gave up on the kit and asked if I would finish it for him . It was my turn to laugh .
 
IMO, make a knife however you see fit, just be sure to pass this information onto your potential customers so that they can make an informed decision having all the facts.

I've recently seen a maker using blanks who was called out on it and wouldn't answer the questions. He lost major credibility because he wasn't upfront, because he was misleading, and because he wouldn't come clean when he was busted. :thumbdn:
 
Tippet said:
No, you don't need a belt sander, it saves a lot of time but you don't need it. I may be a novice but that was the first thing I learned, you can do everything you need to with hand tools.

A disk sander makes it easier to get a good looking dovetail, and to get a good hollow grind you need a wheel of some sort, belt sanders are good for that- but so is a old school human-powered grinding wheel. You can do all of it without power tools.

But that's beside the point. Polishing an already-beveled kit blade and adding handles does not constitute a handmade knife.
Click to expand...

Your right, you can totally do it by hand. But the knife this guy gave me had a perfect hollow ground blade. He said he had a belt grinder and a CNC machine but it was at a friends house in a town an hour away. You also need to understand this guy had a huge shop in our town with plenty of room for a belt grinder. Why would you house it an hour away.
 
lol that guy probably goes out on the town with a sock stuffed into his skivvies

Oh and to be clear...I have noproblem with kit knives, but it is wrong to call them "handmade" and sell them as if he made them from scratch himself.
 
By the way, why do you condem 440-C ? Have you used it much and what did you find was wrong with it? Thanks. Frank.
 
I recently finished my first knife and have of course been showing it off to my friends and co-workers. Every single person who's seen it asked some variant of "So, did you make this out of a plain piece of steel, or did it come ready to put together?"

That sort of put me off the first couple of times I heard it, but after some thought it tells me 2 things:

1) The definition of "made by hand" has become so warped and confused by marketing & advertisements that it's a valid question.

2) Even people that don't know and/or wouldn't appreciate the difference in quality between from-kit and actually handmade DO CARE. If they didn't care they wouldn't ask. If they didn't care they wouldn't give the knife a second, much closer inspection after they know I ground it from stock.

I cannot imagine why any person would falsely claim to have made any thing. It seems to me to be the most futile and empty of lies, and one that benefits nobody.

PS - As a kid I made a lot of model cars and motorcycles from kits. Nothing wrong with assembling and even selling a product not-from-scratch. But like everyone else has said, that needs to be on the label.
 
I would take it a sort of a compliment that they can't tell if you made it or a factory made it, it means that they can't tell because your work is that good.

I got a similar complement last night, I showed a friend my latest knife with sheath. When I gave it to him I just said that it was my latest. When he looked it over he said "Oh wow nice knife and sheath, where did you buy this one" It feels good that someone thinks that you are that good:D

This is the knife and sheath
DSC01355-1.jpg


DSC01353.jpg


That is the one I am keeping the other one, scandi grind, is going to Texas next week as soon as I get the second sheath finished
 
Last edited:
Nice work, Unky. Good point drdoc. I still get the same reaction, folks do make a distinction and when you tell them it's all made from scratch out of barstock or forged steel, they do go back for a closer look. It's sad how long it can take people to learn the basic lesson in life that lack of integrity equals lack of respect and honor. I'm not saying I'm a perfect human being (there is no such thing) but for pete's sake, if you get caught doing something shady, at least 'fess up and take it like a man, then change your behaviour.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top