K i need sum reasons to argue with people restricting me from carrying fixed blades

W

wadly

Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
169
I noe that this has been talked about recently but...

I have a problem...my "colleages" have deemed Small fixed blades unessary as we are scouts and rightfully only should carry an SAK. I AM A VENTURE SCOUT AND OBTAINED THESE KNIVES LEGALY.

I usally carry a SOG seal pup, SOG revolver or a CRKT hammond ABC dive and rescue...But now they say it is too big blah blah blah...they said scoutz is an outdoor Co-curculium activity BUT we do not need knive except for occasions such as survival training or wildernees cooking(cooking useing natural material as pots and utensils)

so i nheed some help to convince them that SAKs are multi-tools and are not proper knives...i read in a recent article(blade forums) that SAK liner locks are pratically useless. But of one the people condeming me carries a 91mm SAK. I am not trying to insult SAK collectors but i need some reasons that i can argue so that i can at least bring a small fixed blade or a large fixed blade e.g. opinel No.12...
then they sent me this through email

Discipline in the Crew

- No ear studs.
- No long hair.
- No misc. accessories that does not belong to the uniform.
- No carrying of knives around the belt.
- If venture are not able to turn up for meeting, they are to contact Aloysius only. If unreachable, call Ho Rey.
- Low tolerance for late-coming (exception for Muslim boys) .


I firmly belive in knives for EDC during my outdoor activities...so basically i really need a way to convice them that knives are important for outdoor uses even if they are not really used, they are still used...Even if i am the only one carrying af fixed, why not? So should i consider this a personal attack?

LAST REASON THEY SAY IF U NEED TO BRING ONLY ONE!!!!! SMALL!!!! SAK!!

thankz alot...
wadly
 
My reason for carrying a fixed blade is I have ten fingers and all ten of them work perfectly. I have other reasons, but I think that one ought to be sufficient.
 
no i dun think that would work as most of them are my senior ventures and that would offend them...would u mind stating ur other reasons...need as many as possible...i also have to sound polite not like "hey u dun just fU*k my if i carry a fixed blade, u think wad SAK good right then wanna compare with my knife"
OR
"so wad u think victorinox good enough that see is ur puny swiss knife with 440A? budget steel can out cut a SOG reground to 30 degrees"
OR
they might tell me"Hey y do u need a BIG kinfe(4"-6") wad u trying to do kill people?or wad going jungle ah?"
...SAK people please dun take this as an offence but I just needed some good examples...and i also use victorinox as my back up knives

thankz agian,
wadly
 
I would try handing my SAK to one of the leaders and casually asking him to show me how to quarter some logs. If he bit I would insist that he purchase me a new knife after he ruined the SAK hitting on it...

but then, my scout troop back in the day was totally bogus. At 12 years old I had learned more fieldcraft from my uncles up in alabama than any of the leaders or eagle scouts in my troop had acquired. I eneded up telling one of them that I wished there was a boxing merit badge so I could get him in the ring.

Talk about problems with authority... I was provoked I tell you!


Yeah, reasons you need more than a SAK:
Try quartering a large log with one.

Sometimes you just need a larger blade or a blade with a different geometry.

The only knife I have ever cut myself on was a SAK while making a wood tent peg- partially my fault (how it always goes right?) and partially due to the lack of a locking mechanism. 15 years ago and I still have the scar.

what happens if you lose the knife? "You mean, I can only take ONE???"

question: Do your senior venture scouts actually know what they are about or are they just exerting their authority over your decisions for the sake of being in control?

What do they say about hatchets? or wood saws...



I can understand limiting Cub and younger Boy scouts in their knife usage but I'll be danged if I can figure out why they would limit the usage of older Boy scouts and definetely Venture scouts. I doubt you would still be involved in scouts in any fashion if you weren't competent enough to pick what tools you carry.

If I were you I'd be very angry. I sincerely hope you have more patience than I.


I used to carry a BlackJack TrailGuide in scouts- beautiful knife. bone handle and all that. I've been meaning to clean it up and get it out more often actually.
 
It's not the military, so I'd ask them why there's a policy against fixed blades, express my dismay, and then quit. I'd go camping on my own time and with my own gear. The boy scouts have just become a brand name, selling and profitting from uniforms and other cheap stuff.
 
roughedges said:
but then, my scout troop back in the day was totally bogus. At 12 years old I had learned more fieldcraft from my uncles up in alabama than any of the leaders or eagle scouts in my troop had acquired. I eneded up telling one of them that I wished there was a boxing merit badge so I could get him in the ring.

question: Do your senior venture scouts actually know what they are about or are they just exerting their authority over your decisions for the sake of being in control?

What do they say about hatchets? or wood saws...
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yah bout that 1st thing yup totaly agree learnt more from malaysian rangers, my uncle's friends than them...louzy city folk dun noe nothing

Yes i have cut myself many times with an SAK and I used to carry a hatchet...same thing happened, but thats OKAY as i dun need a hatchet as i belive in useing chopping knives like cold steel' LTC kukrui, BKT brute or even a Sheffield Ministry of defence U.K.'s Jungle survival knife...yes yes i noe the difference but anyway they dun even let me bring and OPINEL NO.12 so thats means i can't carry a bashing knife...wat really makes me pissed is the fact that u only need 1 knife...scr*w them they dun even know wad the 'ell is a SAK's steel or wad they only know...OH! made in swiss valley(not sure they know that), oh! sharp! sharp! cheap also so why waste money on SOGs or opinels or even my LEATHERMAN CHARGE!!!!they always end up asking me for a certificate of purcase to verifiy that i got it legaly BUT WAIT a LM DOES NOT NEED a cert!!!!Wad the H*ll...they dun noe nutz and thier telling me wad to do...so now if i were to bring a saw i would bring a ultimate survival chain saw!

to answer ur question" question: Do your senior venture scouts actually know what they are about or are they just exerting their authority over your decisions for the sake of being in control?"
I really dun not know i just see it as an attempt to make my stop carrying knives to meetings.

and by the way they also BLAMED me for so called "infulencing" the boy scouts as they were allowed to carry SAKs, they started buying cheap china ripoffs of knives such as fallkinven or god knows wat...but i know in my country their are not restrictions on knives EXCEPT for kukuris, machetes, swords, bailsongs, autos and assistated openers.
BUT there are no laws agianist size!!
From there they disallowed the boy scouts form carrying knives such as a VICTORINOX CLASSIC, i asked myself wad the f*ck is this scouts without knives now I said wad the F*ck we are now wimpy @s5 5ucking Pus5ies
 
MelancholyMutt said:
It's not the military, so I'd ask them why there's a policy against fixed blades, express my dismay, and then quit. I'd go camping on my own time and with my own gear. The boy scouts have just become a brand name, selling and profitting from uniforms and other cheap stuff.
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I would agree but...here, singapore there are no laws againist knives except for kukuris, machetes, swords, bailsongs, autos and assistated openers.

Here we do CCA, co-curiculium activities which are counted in addition to our grades so i just can't quit without losing a lot of CCA points
 
In the woods the sak is great to have but your right on the fix blade is a must have, even a small one can be used to chop with a branch baton, making spoons and such is much better with a fix , If you can get a nice fix becker necker and wear around the neck under the shirt . :D
 
From what I see of your post, you list the things expected of you and they are :

"- No ear studs.
- No long hair.
- No misc. accessories that does not belong to the uniform.
- No carrying of knives around the belt."

Now from this list it all seems directed at the "look" of the person from the outside ,,,right?

And there is something to this as it actually does help build a team spirit when everyone on the team looks the same.

This belt knife rule just sounds like they dont want everyone to have a different sheath hanging on their belts....

Im not sure this is a rule against haveing a type of knife that hangs from a belt, but rather it seems to me to just be a rule of wearing a belt knife from your belt due to the way it just looks...
 
DaQo'tah Forge said:
This belt knife rule just sounds like they dont want everyone to have a different sheath hanging on their belts....

Im not sure this is a rule against haveing a type of knife that hangs from a belt, but rather it seems to me to just be a rule of wearing a belt knife from your belt due to the way it just looks...
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Ah no...it just me who carries a belt knife or who carries acessaries such as streamlight Tl-2 or even a fire piston
and that part on uniform only adds on to my problem of them not allowing me to carry even a knife other than a ONE misreable small SAK
and the hair and ear stud thing right only one fella has long hair and only 1 other fella has ear studs
 
I have 2 SAK's and love them both but,
-SAK's can close on your fingers, fixed blades can't
-SAK's are flimsy compared to fixed blades or larger folders
-A 2 1/2 inch blade is far to small for most things outside of whittling sticks and cutting rope.
-Fixed blades require little or no maintainance outside of sharpening, and multitools require frequent cleaning to work smoothly.
-Big fixed blades are very usefull for chopping, and why not use those if axes are used.
-Any knife used improperly can cause death.
 
Can you not be 'discreet' with your carry of another knife? By all means carry the SAK, but the neck knife suggestion earlier was a good one IMHO.

They specify against belt carry specifically. So don't wear it on your belt.

Or, become Sikh, and claim religious persecution because they won't let you carry your kirpan (is that the right word?) and grow your hair long.
 
My standard load, through lots of Scout work over the years, was a Cam Scout knife and a Ka-Bar short in the woods. With that combo, I was set, and well. Try mentioning how the carry of a fixed blade is a valuable bit of education in how to properly use tools- there are things the folder will do that the fixed can't, and vice versa.

ETA.

Also, I would mention the base value of a second knife in camp- food prep, overall wilderness survival skills use, more strength for when strength is needed. Does your nation still have an official Scout fixed blade? If they do, carry one. If they don't, try finding a Western 66 or similar- it's the one that the US Scouts used up until 1983, and still a fine knife. You wouldn't want to baton it, as it's thin (more a skinner than a survival blade), but you can cut circles around anything out there.
 
i can't be discreet as they said ONE SAK ONLY unless I am doing instructorship or learning of survival skills or backwoods cooking...my nation does not have a scout knife but we commonly use Britsh army WWII style, Various SAKs for scouts...But for ventures there were not any restrictions till lately and that was yesterday when they said that knives r not to be brought and then they said heard that Nicholas?,me...I really need help on this topic as i am going up to my VSL venture scout leader,Group scout leader, venture chairman and Ex-chairman to debate over this issue...y can't we use knives in scouts regardless of the conditions as the motto is "Perkanap Bersedia"in english that means scouts be prepared.And by the way these r louzy dumb@ss urban folks whom have mostly handled only a kitchen knife or SAK and VERY VERY RARELY maybe once or twice a matchette and most have only seen a leatherman on the self or mine...so they are not knife folks at all.

I have been using a malayan matchette or parang since i was 9+ now i am almost 16 so wad Small fixed also cannot?Only 4"-6" while a parang is 12" chopper and i used it proficently since i was 10?I chopped a whole tree down in 30 mintues it was about 9" wide when i was 10...remember i was just a kid then...
 
Sword and Shield said:
My standard load, through lots of Scout work over the years, was a Cam Scout knife and a Ka-Bar short in the woods. With that combo, I was set, and well. Try mentioning how the carry of a fixed blade is a valuable bit of education in how to properly use tools- there are things the folder will do that the fixed can't, and vice versa.

Also, I would mention the base value of a second knife in camp- food prep, overall wilderness survival skills use, more strength for when strength is needed.
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they dun understand knives they r d*mb@sses who know nutz 'bout knives except they can cut and mine are freaking sharp...by the way even a cam or short Ka-bar they dun allow thats y i feel fu*ked up by this problem...they say bring one folder...then one SAK...then one small SAK...then one small only when u need it...argghhh!
 
I hate to say it but after reading your last post wadly my first thought was that I would quit immediately. You seem to have skills that are greater than theirs. As MelancholyMutt said: this is not the military and you don't have to take orders from people who know far less than you.

If you are in it for the hiking and outdoors activities you can have at least as much fun on your own. If you are looking for the public service you can do just as much, maybe even more, on your own.

If the debate does not go well for you do not let it discourage you. Just move on.


As for debating them... the motto for Scouts everywhere is Be Prepared as you said... having one knife (and just a pocketknife at that) fits no definition of wilderness preparation that I know of. It seems to me that this policy does scouts a disservice in their wilderness education.
 
roughedges said:
I hate to say it but after reading your last post wadly my first thought was that I would quit immediately. You seem to have skills that are greater than theirs. As MelancholyMutt said: this is not the military and you don't have to take orders from people who know far less than you.

If the debate does not go well for you do not let it discourage you. Just move on.
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No can't do if i quit i would lose CCA points which would affect me see above for defination...yes it is not the military but we enforcee some military standards as all boys at 18 have to go to the army so this is like the first step...i like i am a lower ranking officer than them...indeed i have greater skills but this is a single town country on an island...so where else am i to go...all rainforest are protected and i have to go to malaya for adventures...

oh yah for the be prepared part they would say oh safety reasons...u might kill sumone and that sort of crap...
 
guys really thankz for ur help it is making me more ready to confront these people...and start my debate with them...i have got 50 points to use on them mostly from blade forums...haha...By the way any1 got anymore reasons y not to use a SAK?
 
If you want to be part of a group, you have to follow their rules, even if the rules don't make sense to you. I'm sure you can raise an objection and explain to them the reason you want that rule changed but in the end it's their decision, not yours. I'm not trying to be an a-hole, it just seems that if you really want to be a Scout then you'll respect the rules they set forth for you. If you can't handle them, quit.

I think the reason they don't want you to carry knives like that is that the general public's perception of knives is that they're weapons. If Scouts are running around with Battle Mistress' on their belt, they start looking more like Hitler Youth rather than the beloved Scouts. I don't agree with that but it may be a reason you can't carry what you want.
 
I used to belong to a church group called the "Royal Rangers." (ya I never liked the name either)

Well these fine folks required that if you went on a trip to the woods that you must pass a series of writtin and real world tests to show you were competent with a blade, of any kind. Or you were not allowed to use the tools. But these test came around every 6 months. And I join 2 weeks after the last one was given. So I would have to wait 5 months to take the test.

So or group goes on a camping trip and I'm forced to leave my SAK(I was 12, it's all my folks would spend on me for a knife at the time) behind along with my hatchet, folding saw, and machete.

And wouldn't you know it, I was one of 4 people out of the 24 that went that didn't cut ourselves in some way or another. And I did use tools behind the adults back, mainly to fix the crappy jobs they did and tried to pass off as "the right way".

3 weeks later I left. I was tired of learning nothing but knots in class and being told I needed to take the test before I could carry my SAK with me inside the church building and that I should leave it at home. Excuse me but I do go other places after I leave here, and I might need my SAK for something.

My advice is have one of the instructors go and soak his hand in cold, not cool, water. once they are fairly chilled, not freezing but still kinda numb. Ask him to open his SAK and open a bag of chips with a clean straight cut.

If it looks like he going to kill himself stop him an then ask him to try you fixed blade. With the larger handle he should be fine.

When you hand are old and numb trying to get your nail into the groove on a SAK blade is a real trick. A normal folder can atleast be opened with a drop or flick.

Maybe you should look into a "Mega Folder" I love my SOG Pentagon Elite 2. It's more of a self defense oriented blade, but it's still big.

The Cold Steel X2 is a big folder and chops fairly well. These would solve actual cutting problem but I'd still feel safer chopping with a fixed blade.

Try and get a decorative knife added to the uniform. Nothing huge just a small simple cutter with an leather sheah matched to the color scheme of your uniform. Then you can swap it out for your normal FB in the bush.

Just my $0.02, good luck.
 
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