K i need sum reasons to argue with people restricting me from carrying fixed blades

[Laceration]

Here's an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up. Is it legal for you to carry a fixed blade knife?

 

[fulloflead]

Count, he's in Singapore. It will be real hard to find a day at or below freezing.

Hmmm. Bring 'em here. It's that cold here and we've got snow. Just try to open and close and SAK when it's caked with snow!

 

[jacknife]

From there they disallowed the boy scouts form carrying knives such as a VICTORINOX CLASSIC, i asked myself wad the f*ck is this scouts without knives now I said wad the F*ck we are now wimpy @s5 5ucking Pus5ies

They teach you to cuss like that in the Scouts?

 

[Benjamin Liu]

haha...good but i need sumthing they will be willing to try, thier not that stupid to see in fixed blade or slipjoint in which would obviously lose

If any of us had a way to convince them we would have long ago. The sheeple are scared of fixed blades and will not change their minds no matter how many facts contradict their paranoid delusions. I tried to change things when I was in Scouts and no one listened.

IMO, it is probably best to get a good SAK if you cannot convince them to allow you to carry a fixed blade. The liner locking ones are not as good as real liner locks but they are better than no lock. They are also larger so the saw will be more effective. IMO the two most important tools on an SAK are the blade and saw. If you will not be using the canopener, bottle opener, or screwdrivers you might want something like this: http://www.knivesplus.com/camillus-boy-scout-knife-cm-bsa068.html . The lock will probably be stronger than an SAK. Another option is a multitool. There is nothing wrong with SAKs and they are important outdoors tools. It is just that they don't replace a fixed blade or a heavy-duty folder. I don't buy into the "only one knife" idea. Of the knives I've seen, the Tracker seems to come the closest to this.

You can survive with just an SAK, though it would be more difficult. That is not a good argument for only having an SAK though. You can also have no knife and find rocks, smash them together, and have a primitive cutting tool. That is no justification for not preparing and counting on finding good rocks. Many of these anti-fixed blade types simply see what they do in a controlled camping situation and are not thinking of a true survival situation or primitive camping.

 

[wadly]

Here's an interesting point that I don't think has been brought up. Is it legal for you to carry a fixed blade knife?

yes it is legal I obtain it legaly and it is registered up my name and it was said in my first post of this thread.
No they dun teach us to cuss like that in scouts but in school yeah...

 

[madcap_magician]

They teach you to cuss like that in the Scouts?

Well, that's where I learned how to say ****. And ****. And don't forget **** **** ******* ****** *****!!!!!

 

[Mitchell Knives]

A fixed blade is inherently safer than a folder. If the scouts don't realize this, then you are probably better off not having anything to do with them. I wouldn't be part of an organization that kept me from carrying the right tool for the job.

 

[Thomas Linton]

A fixed blade is inherently safer than a folder. If the scouts don't realize this, then you are probably better off not having anything to do with them. I wouldn't be part of an organization that kept me from carrying the right tool for the job.

Groucho Marx: "I refuse to join any club that would have me for a member."

 

[wadly]

well if that stuff does not work out i will just bring my ontario marine raider and my ontario 22" machette during one of the meetings that they allow knives and then say my seal pup now very small right?

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Groucho Marx: "I refuse to join any club that would have me for a member."

lol

I actually thought of that while writing my post.

 

[redvenom]

Hi Wadly

(just my two cents - scouting was a good part of my life for some time and on this topic I tend to be vocal so forgive me if I offend)

I'm sure you know that generally rules are written by folks who are remarkably impervious to common-sense. I was in the Scouts for just about all my secondary school life (6 years) just north of the border from you (Malaysia). In my time, all the Scouts in my troop carried cheap fixed blades with about 4" blades of "China Stainless" that cost about RM 30 each (about US$8). We had a great Scoutmaster who also taught us how to use the parang (machete) safely.

What the increasingly lawsuit-fearing folks in charge of the Scout movement need to realize is that the whole object of the movement is to teach young people values like discipline, teamwork, and responsibility. Everything else is icing on the cake. But by removing what they perceive as "dangers" like knives they are moving against all these noble goals. "Butterfly knives look dangerous in movies" - ban them. "Axes are terrible weapons, did you watch Last of the Mohicans?" - ban them as well. And let us not forget "Big knives like those Rambo uses" - (yep) ban them.

Yes, big knives can be dangerous tools. There are a lot of dangerous tools (and dangerous fools but let's not get into that now) out there that can hurt you or somebody nearby if you use them carelessly. But learning about them and how to handle them safely is part of growing up in the real world.

Unfortunately our educators and officials now feel that the best course of action against "dangerous objects" in the real world is hiding young people from it instead of teaching them how to deal with it. Probably because accidents and lawsuits affect their careers but educating the youth in the original aim of the Scout movement does not.

Andrew Lim

 

[Jeff Clark]

Fixed blade is easier to clean and keep sanitary for food preparation. It is the only way to go if you have to clean fish or other wild game. It is safer and stronger in an emergency. It never closes on your fingers (which is a particular risk if you are working on some survival gizmo). If your hands are messy you don't have to get your pants dirty when you dig a knife out of your pocket. If you have an accident and get tangled up in brush and clothes it is easy to deploy. You won't drop it while trying to get the blade open.

 

[DaQo'tah Forge]

As I said before, I helped for a little over a year with the Scouts here that are set up in the fireside room of our church. The leader of the troop had set forth offical rules that all the scouts had to keep. And when we got to the week where we learned about how to handle a knife, the rule for the allowed blades was "Folders Only",

This rule is the best-safe way to teach young men how to work with their very first knife. A folder is the best type of knife to start out on, The folder is way way way way way more safer than other blades. The lack of a lock is another safe thing about the scout folder that we used. The truth be told, most accidents kids end up with are because of that darn lock on some knives.

I say again. If you are going to a club or some type of scout meeting where the clear rule is "folders only" then there is no good reason at all to go out of your way to break this rule.

There are tons of cool looking folders to pick from. The scouts have some darn good knives that are allowed.

When you have kids, you have to provide leadership , and this means that you got to be able to trust that when you tell your kids to do something, that something gets done. The idea of teaching your kids that all our Laws are easy to break if you just disagree with them is crazy!...I call that being a foolish parent.

Kids today already have a huge support system to get them into trouble. Everywhere kids go they are around people that want to convince them to break the rules....Scouts is about leaning to "KEEP THE RULES!"....not breaking them.

Scouts is all about learning the importance of being "Mentally awake and morally straight"

Scouts are about teaching boys to be obedient to your countries laws. to learn that to become a great leader later in life and give orders, you have to first learn to take orders.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

If a slipjoint is safer than a fixed blade or a locking folder, wouldn't a cutting surface with no handle be even better? What about just getting rid of knives and just smashing rocks to get a sharp edge to cut with?

These rules are made by sheeple who fear knives. They only allow certain knives because they don't scare them as much. If they had a way to camp without them they'd ban them too. A guy (?) afraid of a knife is not someone I'd want to be around in the woods.

There is no justification for stupid rules. I only suggest following them if that is what it takes to reach your goals. They should only be followed under protest. I do not respect sheeple or bladephobes since idiots like that effect my freedom. Their opinions on the subject are based on paranoid misinformation and are of no value.

 

[Emanuel]

Wadly,
I wish I had seen this thread earlier.

It sounds to me as if your leaders have an inate fear of anything that might even SEEM like a possible weapon.

First I would ask them what is causing their fear of inanimate objects.

Secondly, since all knives regardless of type or size are indeed inanimate(to become dangerous they need a person), are they untrusting of you? And if so, you should ask them what you have done to warrent such mistrust.

Are they trying to imply that you are going to use a knife to kill someone? And let me tell you, them not allowing you to carry whatever knives you want whenever and whereveer you want to IS AN INSINUATION THAT YOU ARE A DANGEROUS PERSON.

Let me repeat, knives are inanimate tools. Disallowing you carry any knife is a negative insinuation that you are a dangerous person. It is an insult, it is even slander.(or libel if they do it in writing)

If they respond in any way that might imply that you might be a danger to the kids if you have a knife, you should start throwing the word defamation around.

Insinuations of you possibly harming someone with a knife is very serious, and you should tell them to think twice about it.

Allow me to quote Sigmund Freud at this point:

http://www.hkweaponsystems.com/cgi-bin/quote.pl?sigmund_freud

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

-Sigmund Freud , "General Introduction to Psychoanalysis"

This must be why I never joined the Boy Scouts. These stupid blade restrictions would simply have not worked with me.

I'll carry what I want when I want.

And if the guy telling you not to carry a SAK carries one himself, you should consider that a personal insult. He's really saying that you're not trustworthy enough to carry a knife, but he is.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

all knives regardless of type or size are indeed inanimate(to become dangerous they need a person),

According to some beliefs the kris can jump out of its scabbard and attack a person who is a threat to its owner. Maybe a lot of the Scout administrators take these legends seriously and apply it to all knives.

 

[Emanuel]

Quite possibly indeed.

I didn't know that about kris knives. I need one of those.

 

[DaQo'tah Forge]

If a slipjoint is safer than a fixed blade or a locking folder, wouldn't a cutting surface with no handle be even better?

I think you are missing the point here.

The reg normal folder is a very safe knife because you dont need a sheath to carry it inside your pocket. Try that with a full tang fixed blade sometime and you will "get my point"...LOL

The folder is also a safe knife to teach scouts with because there is no lock for them to have to deal with. The funny truth of the matter is , that them darn locks on locking knives are the casue of a lot of trouble for kids. They are the reason kids can deeply cut themsleves.
Many locks are tricky to operate. Many locks need a strong set of fingers to work. Many locks are so new that the way they even work can be tricky to even understand. Many locks need you to use both hands to close the knife, one hand working hard at some sort of lock, perhaps squeezing down very hard, while the other hand has to waite for the correct moment to begin to close the knife without getting fingers trapped.

Thats why locks on knive and scouts is nothing but trouble and unneeded.

Also, a locking blade is never going to be as strong as a fixed blade knife. I believe I remember Ed Fowler talking about this in his KNIFE TALK I book. ed called the locking folder the love child of a fixed blade and a pocket knife. While the thinking behind building a lock on a knife is that it should make the knife a bit safer to use, the truth is that you simply cant treat any locking folder as if it was just as strong as a fixed blade. However the deal with locking knives is that the lock lies to the user into thinking that now the knife is the same as a fixed blade.

and thats where you get into trouble when dealing with boys in your scout troop. Any boy , no matter how young, can learn how to work a slip-joint pocket knife safely. The pocket folder does not need a sheath. The look of scouts is very important and so thats why some scout troops have rules against all belt sheaths. Belt sheath look nice when new, but if sure dont take long to make even the best belt sheath to start to look ratty.

Thats another good reason why the scouts in my troop have a rule where the boys could only carry pocket knives.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Our Troop has Scouts ages 11-17+. Some would have trouble with a lock blade and some would not. Some are safe with a knife/axe/saw, some are learning, and some have shown that they will likely never learn enough.

Absolute bans that make no distinction between one person and another are arbitrary and irrational. Sometimes there is no other choice. Here there are a whole range of choices.

 

[Psychopomp]

I think you are missing the point here.

The reg normal folder is a very safe knife because you dont need a sheath to carry it inside your pocket. Try that with a full tang fixed blade sometime and you will "get my point"...LOL

But fixed blades aren't meant to be carried in the pocket, so that's irrelevant.

I do agree that a non-locking knife is best for kids to learn on. My first knife was a Buck 110, and as much as I loved that knife (and still do), I wish I'd had a slipjoint first after getting bitten a few times when I did get a slipjoint.

That said, once you know how to handle a knife, no knife is dangerous. If you're out in the woods, it's best to have both a folder for small stuff and a fixed blade for bigger things if the need arises.

So you say you never saw a need for the fixed blade, right? And you may very well never need your fixed blade knife out there. I was a scout too, and I do remember the motto, be prepared. Sh*t happens out there and it's best to have the knife even if it never leaves its sheath. You can't rely on the leader to solve everything. Kids get lost, people get hurt... you may even need shelter. I'd feel a lot safer with my Ka-Bar in that situation than a little SAK.

Rules are rules, yes. If they say no fixed blades, then no fixed blades. But it's a shame that they're frowned upon. I don't want to see kids running around with RTAKs and full size Ka-Bars and the like, but a small pilot's knife and an SAK is a good combination in the event that something goes wrong.