K390 Military

blackcatt said:
There may be others who have used k390 but it is a new and somewhat hard to find material. Keep your eye on Bohler, more good stuff out there and more on the way. Bohler and Carpenter are really upping the game in the pm steels. 3v is about the only cpm steel I buy. When Bohler Vanadis 4E is easier to get I'll be done with 3v too.
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Phil Wilson is the only other one that I am aware of so far. :)
 
Not k294 but a lot of 10v. Stupid wear resistance but much less toughness. If I guessed I'd say k294 would be tougher than 10v and would take a bit better of an edge. 3rd generation pm by Bohler seems to be much more advanced.
 
These Bohler steels seem exceptionally clean to me. I have yet to find an inclusion or bubble in one of their PM steels. It has happened but rarely with Crucible. Carpenter I don't consider my experience broad enough to make that comparison yet, though the ones I have used were nicely done.

I'm still looking forward to the PM BG42 type steel. It should give good edge. :)

Joe
 
The more and more people talk about this steel it seems like it would be my perfect work knife in a PM2 w/ a nice dark colored g-10, black or brown
 
holmsie12 said:
The more and more people talk about this steel it seems like it would be my perfect work knife in a PM2 w/ a nice dark colored g-10, black or brown
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It's still new yet so I would guess more testing would be needed. :)
 
blackcatt said:
Bohler and Carpenter are really upping the game in the pm steels. 3v is about the only cpm steel I buy. When Bohler Vanadis 4E is easier to get I'll be done with 3v too.
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have you tried vanadis 10 ? i've seen a few customs in this steel in europe the maker's impressions were pretty extreme too ...

2,9C 8Cr 9,8V ...
 
Never tried that one. Looking at composition it probably gives up lots of toughness to V4E.
 
We won't really know very much more until a propduction maker ( probably Spyderco) makes a production run.

But from what Bohler, and Mr. Wilson tell us, it appears that it will be as big of an improvement over S90V, as S90V was over AUS8. That is to say, several orders of magnitude. :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Ben Dover said:
We won't really know very much more until a propduction maker ( probably Spyderco) makes a production run.

But from what Bohler, and Mr. Wilson tell us, it appears that it will be as big of an improvement over S90V, as S90V was over AUS8. That is to say, several orders of magnitude. :thumbup::thumbup:
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Do you have a link to Phil's comments on K390? I've looked at his site but can't find anything.
 
Ben Dover said:
But from what Bohler, and Mr. Wilson tell us, it appears that it will be as big of an improvement over S90V, as S90V was over AUS8. That is to say, several orders of magnitude. :thumbup::thumbup:
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I'm all for getting excited about new steels, but now that I've actually read Phil's comments, this seems like a massive exaggeration of how big of an improvement one can reasonably expect K390 to be over S90V. :)

Will it be a substantial improvement? Almost certainly. Will that improvement be as big as the gap between S90V and something like AUS-8? Almost certainly not.
 
neuron said:
I'm all for getting excited about new steels, but now that I've actually read Phil's comments, this seems like a massive exaggeration of how big of an improvement one can reasonably expect K390 to be over S90V. :)

Will it be a substantial improvement? Almost certainly. Will that improvement be as big as the gap between S90V and something like AUS-8? Almost certainly not.
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It would be a noticeable difference, if as Phil says it's in the same category as K294 then it should be around a +50% increase over S90V.

But then that would depend on hardness, heat treating and the tempering process also.
 
Ankerson said:
It would be a noticeable difference, if as Phil says it's in the same category as K294 then it should be around a +50% increase over S90V.

But then that would depend on hardness, heat treating and the tempering process also.
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Agreed. :thumbup:
 
On the discussion of CPM 10V and Bohler-Uddeholm K294 here it was mentioned here that 10V has stupid good wear resistance but lower toughness than K294. Not to step on your toes Blackcatt but I personally have not seen that. They are both the A11 grade and the same chemistry. I think Ankerson tested both and has some data on that. It more depends on the heat treat and edge geometry. The BU particle process is more refined but the particle size on both is so small that I am not sure the difference would show up in a knife blade. I like both steels, CPM 10V is like 40 years old since development and over this time they have worked out all the potential problems. This BU version is very nice indeed, heat treats easy and the finer grain and advertised cleaner mix are all welcome. Both companies have been very helpful to us custom makers. Good tech support and availability of steel. They are also willing to supply material in small quantities and thickness that work for a knife blade.
The K390 is an interesting change. As mentioned before it is the A11 grade basically but with added tungsten and moly. Both these form carbides that add to the vanadium carbide in the mix. The data sheet says a little less wear resistance than the std A11. I guess that is because both moly and tungsten carbide are slightly softer than vanadium carbide. On the basis of one knife blade I did not see that K390 has less edge holding than 10V or K294. They are all very good, in fact in the same top category and I think it would take a laboratory and very controlled conditions to see a difference. BU has mentioned that they are going to do some CATRA tests with K294 so when that comes out maybe it will tell us something. K390 has the potential of inching the hardness up a bit with a thin edge geometry or a more aggressive use with the same geometry. We may be talking about marginal differences but as more makers work with K390 we should get some feedback. I just ordered some to play with and will have more to say as I get some experience with it. A kitchen knife is a good place to start.
If Sal makes a folder with CPM 10V, K390 or K294 I will be in line for one. Phil
 
Phil Wilson said:
On the discussion of CPM 10V and Bohler-Uddeholm K294 here it was mentioned here that 10V has stupid good wear resistance but lower toughness than K294. Not to step on your toes Blackcatt but I personally have not seen that. They are both the A11 grade and the same chemistry. I think Ankerson tested both and has some data on that. It more depends on the heat treat and edge geometry. The BU particle process is more refined but the particle size on both is so small that I am not sure the difference would show up in a knife blade. I like both steels, CPM 10V is like 40 years old since development and over this time they have worked out all the potential problems. This BU version is very nice indeed, heat treats easy and the finer grain and advertised cleaner mix are all welcome. Both companies have been very helpful to us custom makers. Good tech support and availability of steel. They are also willing to supply material in small quantities and thickness that work for a knife blade.
The K390 is an interesting change. As mentioned before it is the A11 grade basically but with added tungsten and moly. Both these form carbides that add to the vanadium carbide in the mix. The data sheet says a little less wear resistance than the std A11. I guess that is because both moly and tungsten carbide are slightly softer than vanadium carbide. On the basis of one knife blade I did not see that K390 has less edge holding than 10V or K294. They are all very good, in fact in the same top category and I think it would take a laboratory and very controlled conditions to see a difference. BU has mentioned that they are going to do some CATRA tests with K294 so when that comes out maybe it will tell us something. K390 has the potential of inching the hardness up a bit with a thin edge geometry or a more aggressive use with the same geometry. We may be talking about marginal differences but as more makers work with K390 we should get some feedback. I just ordered some to play with and will have more to say as I get some experience with it. A kitchen knife is a good place to start.
If Sal makes a folder with CPM 10V, K390 or K294 I will be in line for one. Phil
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Yep, I didn't see any real difference between CPM-10V and K294 in my testing, at least I didn't notice anything that stood out, A11 is A11 I think. :thumbup:

If there is a difference CATRA would be needed to see it I believe, although K294 could be slightly more corrosion resistant possibly, but who knows. :)

If Sal ever does make a folder in those steels I will definitely be in line for them also. :thumbup:
 
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