KA-BAR Chat thread - Come on in the house

[TBL]

Keep on rolling!

- another page bites the dust!

 

[zzyzzogeton]

I read somewhere (W&C maybe) that the forum software starts glitching up with really big threads. That's why they occasionally kill the multi-K post threads over in W&C and Political.

We just gotta get a bunch of Kabar folks to start talking abut stuff..

 

[Jerry D.]

This little trio of the BK14, Cutco, and leatherman Micra were more than enough for Christmas unwrapping and opening etc...

I like the blue Micra a lot! I need to scrounge up a blue style CS.

We just gotta get a bunch of Kabar folks to start talking abut stuff..

Stuff is good. :thumbup:

 

[TBL]

I like stuff..... And things too!

 

[NCSlice]

Thanks! Flea bay TSA item...you can see where I scratched off someones name lol. Tons available. Think I paid $8 shipped? Been considering grabbing a few more...the scissors on it are unreal for a tiny thing...like no give and very sharp. Pretty handy and just about invisible in the pocket.

Picked up a couple SAKs too for around $7ea. Hate TSA but love the little gadgets etc that morons think they can take on a plane. There's gotta be piles and piles of stuff confiscated hourly.

 

[B.Mauser]

I love this KaBar. Its not mine,I dont have one. But in the last 5 years I have bid on 3 different ones on Ebay. Lost them all. I wont give up. I will own one of these someday.

 

[TBL]

I like it :thumbup:

That the sailing/ rigging knife?

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Yes. The first ones came out in the 30s and were called the "Voyageur". The first couple if years they had a drop point and then shifted to a wharncliff profile.

Later, (60s, IIRC), 1252 was assigned as the model number. In the 70s, the model number 1375 was assigned to it.

Now I might have the model numbers reversed as the order in which they were used. I've seen way more 1375s than 1252s. Although I have 3 different Kabars with 1252 as the model number - this style, a hunter style and the current usage, one of the shorties.

 

[DunkEm]

Is the idea of a sailing/rigging knife being a wharncliff to keep you from accidentally stabbing yourself or someone/thing if the ship lurches in the waves?

And is the spike to help undo knots in the ropes/rigging?

 

[B.Mauser]

Is the idea of a sailing/rigging knife being a wharncliff to keep you from accidentally stabbing yourself or someone/thing if the ship lurches in the waves?

And is the spike to help undo knots in the ropes/rigging?

I dont really know but I always assumed this blade style was for the exact reason you said. Makes sense to me. I think it was considered a sheepsfoot blade.

And yes the spike is for undoing knots. Its called a marlin spike. It can also be a big needle to repair nets.

I read that it was popular to keep a lanyard between the handle and Marlin spike like this one.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

Is the idea of a sailing/rigging knife being a wharncliff to keep you from accidentally stabbing yourself or someone/thing if the ship lurches in the waves?

And is the spike to help undo knots in the ropes/rigging?

Yes and Yes.

I dont really know but I always assumed this blade style was for the exact reason you said. Makes sense to me. I think it was considered a sheepsfoot blade.

And yes the spike is for undoing knots. Its called a marlin spike. It can also be a big needle to repair nets.

I read that it was popular to keep a lanyard between the handle and Marlin spike like this one.

In the maritime community, ropes fall into 3 categories. Small stuff, lines and hawsers.

Small stuff is anything less than 1" in diameter.
Hawsers are anything with a diameter of over 4".
Lines are everything in between,

A naval quirk is that small stuff and hawsers are referred to by their diameter, while lines are most often called by their circumference.

A 6" towing hawser is 6 inches in diameter, while a 6" mooring line is about 2" in diameter.

The spike is also used as an assisting tool when splicing hawsers, line or small stuff. You use it to pry apart the individual lays in the line so that you can weave the lay ends into the main body of the line.

For the lanyard above, the spike in the picture may have been used to splice in the knife, but the splicer had to use a different spike when splicing in the spike.

Spikes this size are used on "small stuff", which are lines up to 1/2" or so in diameter.

For "lines", the spike is usually about 12" to 18" long and 1/2" or more in diameter. The spikes we used on hawsers are 3 or 4 FEET long and it would take 4 or 5 men to splice one. Fortunately, splicing a hawser was never a frequent task.

The lanyard, when rigged as depicted, is to prevent inadvertent loss of either tool if dropped. The rig allows for a single lanyard to be used for 2 tools. One tool is sheathed while the other is in use. Supposedly, the user sheaths one of the tools and then it is supposed to act as an anchor for the tool in use. The scheme works MOST of the time.

 

[B.Mauser]

Very interesting ZZ. I was expecting you to be the one who knew about this one.

Do you think the one with the makers mark in the middle of the blade is the 1252?

I have a picture of one with the mark on the ricasso and its marked 1375. Searching KaBar 1252 mostly brings a lot of the KaBar dozier with that same model.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

No, the 1252 sailor's knife have 1252 in the ricasso.

The one's with the mark in the blade near the spine are, to the best of my knowledge, the older ones, say 1930s and 1940s, but maybe some were 1950s.

I have not put a lot of effort into figuring those out, just what knowledge I've accumulated while looking for other things. I mostly work on figuring out Western knives and 1219C2s/USN MK2s. Non-military Kabars and US bayonets are my secondary knife interests. I learned about the "Voyaguer" by reading through the Kabar section of "600 Boy Scout Knives" while looking for information about some other Kabar knives. Maybe Gunsil has some definitive info on when which ones showed up.

I am (fortunately or unfortunately - depends on your viewpoint) what I call a "Pattern Collector". A knife don't have to be NIB-Mint, or hell, even in "Good" shape, for me to buy it. All it has to be is a "one I don't have yet" knife. My little brain remembers picky little details like model numbers and I was perusing fleabay when I saw "1252" on a sailor's knife when I "knew" the model was 1375. So I bought it. Then I ran across the hunter model 1252. Went through 3 auctions before I got one. Oh, and DON'T get me going on Western W49s. I have over 60 of them, with at least one of every version made EXCEPT an "G" (1984) or "L" (1988).

 

[DunkEm]

The 2 tool - 1 lanyard - 1 sheath around water made me think of my wade fishing belt. Pliers in sheath, lip grabber on d-ring, ultra cheap bait knife hanging in between.



So far, so good on keeping me from losing them in the waves.

 

[B.Mauser]

No, the 1252 sailor's knife have 1252 in the ricasso.

The one's with the mark in the blade near the spine are, to the best of my knowledge, the older ones, say 1930s and 1940s, but maybe some were 1950s.

I have not put a lot of effort into figuring those out, just what knowledge I've accumulated while looking for other things. I mostly work on figuring out Western knives and 1219C2s/USN MK2s. Non-military Kabars and US bayonets are my secondary knife interests. I learned about the "Voyaguer" by reading through the Kabar section of "600 Boy Scout Knives" while looking for information about some other Kabar knives. Maybe Gunsil has some definitive info on when which ones showed up.

I am (fortunately or unfortunately - depends on your viewpoint) what I call a "Pattern Collector". A knife don't have to be NIB-Mint, or hell, even in "Good" shape, for me to buy it. All it has to be is a "one I don't have yet" knife. My little brain remembers picky little details like model numbers and I was perusing fleabay when I saw "1252" on a sailor's knife when I "knew" the model was 1375. So I bought it. Then I ran across the hunter model 1252. Went through 3 auctions before I got one. Oh, and DON'T get me going on Western W49s. I have over 60 of them, with at least one of every version made EXCEPT an "G" (1984) or "L" (1988).

Haha damn. You have it bad. Sounds like an amazing collection. Thanks for your help. I have spent the last 4 years buying only KaBar Beckers trying to get them all. Only 2 left to go I want to start collecting a few KaBar rigging knives next. I am not much of a folding knife guy but I also want to try out a Spyderco.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

I've been collecting/accumulating sharp pointy things since 1975. 90+% of mine are fixed blades.

When I was in the Navy, while most everyone else was hitting bars, etc, I would hit pawn shops and antique stores when on liberty. I'd just pack whatever I bought into a ruck sack. As an officer I was almost never searched coming back. On the rare occasion when I had something AND was searched, since most of what I bought was military knives, bayonets and swords, it wasn't too big a deal.

It never took long for the word to get out that "Mr. Z likes knives." I have a bunch that some of my guys found on their own and bought back for me. That's how I got some non-military "Kabars", i.e., civilian targeted 1219C2s and JPSKs, by Kiffe, a made in Japan version, etc. They would see some "military knife", go in and buy it and bring it back to the ship. If I was on board w/ the duty, I'd get paged to the Quarterdeck. I would just thank them, pay them what they had on the receipt plus a little "finder's fee" and put their "find" in my stash. If I was off the ship, they would leave it with the Officer of the Deck and when I came back, I'd be handed a package, usually with a comment along the lines of "Here's another one".

The diciest one was in San Diego, at North Island Naval Air Station where my ship (USS CONSTELLATION CV-64) was home ported. I was the Duty Ops officer and actually had the QD watch as OOD when we got a call from the main gate that one our sailors had been stopped while trying to enter the gate in a state of "kinda drunk" while carrying a "big-assed bayonet" that he kept insisting was to be delivered to "Mr. Z" on the Connie".

I explained to the gate guards that I actually was the "Mr. Z" in question and that while I was not aware of a specific bayonet being delivered that day, my people knew I collected them and would sometimes bring things they found in pawn shops to me. I was able to sweet talk the guards into bringing the sailor to the ship. The MPs showed up about 10 minutes later with one of the ship's OS2s (E5 Operations Specialists. i.e., radar operators) in tow. The OS2 was proudly carrying his prize in both hands while weaving up the gangway supported on either side by an MP.

I didn't know what he had at first glance but I could tell right away whatever it was I didn't have one. Turned out to be a really good condition 1891 Argentinian Mauser bayonet and scabbard with matching serial numbers. I asked him how much he paid for it. He replied that the pawn shop guy wanted $20 for it, and that he had only haggled him down to $12. "I tried real hard to get him to drop it to $10, but he was a tough old coot."

I pulled out my wallet and asked him what he wanted for it. He said "$15 is good enough." I gave him a $20 and said, "Thank you. Here. Keep the change." He said, "Hot damn. I knew it was a good one when I saw it." And away he went stumbling to his quarters. One of the MPs asked why I gave him $20. I told him

"I don't have a clue what it is yet, but it's 90 years old, in great condition and has matching serial numbers. It's got to be worth at least $30. By giving him more than he wanted, he'll keep looking for more for me and all the time he and his buddies are out looking for knives for Mr. Z, they're not out drinking a lot and getting into trouble."

The MP just shook his head and said, "Damn that's sneaky."

"Yeah, but I get some great knives that way too."

I still have that bayonet. They go for $80 to $200 on fleabay, depending on condition. It would probably bring about $130 to $150, depending on who was bidding that week.

 

[B.Mauser]

I've been collecting/accumulating sharp pointy things since 1975. 90+% of mine are fixed blades.

When I was in the Navy, while most everyone else was hitting bars, etc, I would hit pawn shops and antique stores when on liberty. I'd just pack whatever I bought into a ruck sack. As an officer I was almost never searched coming back. On the rare occasion when I had something AND was searched, since most of what I bought was military knives, bayonets and swords, it wasn't too big a deal.

It never took long for the word to get out that "Mr. Z likes knives." I have a bunch that some of my guys found on their own and bought back for me. That's how I got some non-military "Kabars", i.e., civilian targeted 1219C2s and JPSKs, by Kiffe, a made in Japan version, etc. They would see some "military knife", go in and buy it and bring it back to the ship. If I was on board w/ the duty, I'd get paged to the Quarterdeck. I would just thank them, pay them what they had on the receipt plus a little "finder's fee" and put their "find" in my stash. If I was off the ship, they would leave it with the Officer of the Deck and when I came back, I'd be handed a package, usually with a comment along the lines of "Here's another one".

The diciest one was in San Diego, at North Island Naval Air Station where my ship (USS CONSTELLATION CV-64) was home ported. I was the Duty Ops officer and actually had the QD watch as OOD when we got a call from the main gate that one our sailors had been stopped while trying to enter the gate in a state of "kinda drunk" while carrying a "big-assed bayonet" that he kept insisting was to be delivered to "Mr. Z" on the Connie".

I explained to the gate guards that I actually was the "Mr. Z" in question and that while I was not aware of a specific bayonet being delivered that day, my people knew I collected them and would sometimes bring things they found in pawn shops to me. I was able to sweet talk the guards into bringing the sailor to the ship. The MPs showed up about 10 minutes later with one of the ship's OS2s (E5 Operations Specialists. i.e., radar operators) in tow. The OS2 was proudly carrying his prize in both hands while weaving up the gangway supported on either side by an MP.

I didn't know what he had at first glance but I could tell right away whatever it was I didn't have one. Turned out to be a really good condition 1891 Argentinian Mauser bayonet and scabbard with matching serial numbers. I asked him how much he paid for it. He replied that the pawn shop guy wanted $20 for it, and that he had only haggled him down to $12. "I tried real hard to get him to drop it to $10, but he was a tough old coot."

I pulled out my wallet and asked him what he wanted for it. He said "$15 is good enough." I gave him a $20 and said, "Thank you. Here. Keep the change." He said, "Hot damn. I knew it was a good one when I saw it." And away he went stumbling to his quarters. One of the MPs asked why I gave him $20. I told him

"I don't have a clue what it is yet, but it's 90 years old, in great condition and has matching serial numbers. It's got to be worth at least $30. By giving him more than he wanted, he'll keep looking for more for me and all the time he and his buddies are out looking for knives for Mr. Z, they're not out drinking a lot and getting into trouble."

The MP just shook his head and said, "Damn that's sneaky."

"Yeah, but I get some great knives that way too."

I still have that bayonet. They go for $80 to $200 on fleabay, depending on condition. It would probably bring about $130 to $150, depending on who was bidding that week.

That is a great story! So cool you still have the bayonet. Thanks for typing this out for us.:thumbup:

 

[B.Mauser]

The 2 tool - 1 lanyard - 1 sheath around water made me think of my wade fishing belt. Pliers in sheath, lip grabber on d-ring, ultra cheap bait knife hanging in between.



So far, so good on keeping me from losing them in the waves.

Looks like a good set up. You fishing in the ocean? I fish in waders every summer. I got the kind for duck hunting that has a pocket and shotgun shell holders on the chest. I keep a folder clipped in the shotgun shell holder and a small plastic tackle box of lures in the pocket. I have been wanting one of those fish lip grabbers. That would be really nice for the Pike.

 

[DunkEm]

Looks like a good set up. You fishing in the ocean? I fish in waders every summer. I got the kind for duck hunting that has a pocket and shotgun shell holders on the chest. I keep a folder clipped in the shotgun shell holder and a small plastic tackle box of lures in the pocket. I have been wanting one of those fish lip grabbers. That would be really nice for the Pike.

Most of it is surf fishing standing waste deep in the Gulf of Mexico. I typically will clip a bait bucket on a 6 foot or so rope to my belt as well. The first time I ever went, the lady at the bait shop told me to be real careful with the bait because when I walked into the water I was becoming part of the food chain and wanted to be careful what I attracted. Lip grabbers are essential for anything with teeth bigger than a large mouth bass' teeth. I've seen pictures of Pike. You ought to get a set.

 

[Aikiguy]

Great story Zee; thanks for sharing. That made me look up the history of the Connie as well. Good stuff.