Kamis Gone Wild (Marketing Survey)

The JKM is too much of a departure for you? Nothing they make is absent 'nepalized'- what would be the point?

Bill tells a story of Bura making a lockback. An engineer type handled it. When he saw the close fit he was stunned. Without CNC machinery.
They don't need a book.



munk
 
What I meant by non-nepalized was mostly handles. Most puukkos have large, hand filling grips that are much more comfortable to western hands. I like the JKM but to me it just didnt seem like a puukko with the relatively small, belled out handle. I guess the kamis would probally be warry about completely changing to a finnish style with no secondary bevel and burnt in tangs (do they drill or burn in their tangs anyways?). All I was getting at was, new styles of blades with the great HI craftsmanship.
 
All I was getting at was, new styles of blades with the great HI craftsmanship.>>>>>>>>


Yeah. You know, we've expressed a lot of copy this and that, but it would be neat to see what came out if you told them just to make something.



munk
 
Actually, I would like to see some of the better known kamis make a series of knives of varying blade lengths.

For example, a bowie of about 10 and a half inches - full tang. A hunting knife of six and four inches (blade length).

Time to diversify from the usual range of khuks and broaden the market, so to speak! :D
 
I'd like to see an HI smatchet like that Welsh trench knife/sword.
A longer, more drawn-out AK Bowie would be cool as well.
A kora.
A barong.
A real hanshee.
More D-guard "museum" khukuris and 18th century file-marked khuks :)
A long leaf or bhojpure khuk.
though I'm sure what they come up with will certainly be interesting!!
 
Jebadiah_Smith said:
A kris and new puukkos (non-nepalized). Also I think that kamis could forge the old fashioned lockbacks with external springs, this site has examples:

http://www.oakandiron.com/antlerandironii.html

Someone should send the kamis that book. :)
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That is a great idea! Maybe just send one of the big locking Okapi knives.

How 'bout a pichok? I'd prefer a half bolster or at least a narrower ricasso so the thing could be used on a cutting board and the heel would be useful.

ttoy267.JPG


I found the text concerning this one quite interesting:

length: 11 1/2"
blade: 7"
blade width: 1 7/16" base
grip: 4 1/2"

I first thought this was a reproduction of an older style of knife, but then a nice young lady mailed me the following information:
"Just FYI: the proper name for this knife is Pichok. It sounds suspiciously similar to the Turkish Bichaq or to the South-Indian Pichangatti. Since Uzbekistan was a close neighbor of Turkish-Afghani Moghuls, the Indian connection may not be totally unexpected. Another similarity between the three is their scabbard: deep to the point that only the very top ob the handle is sticking out. In the not so distant past, every adult Uzbeki man had a Pichok hanging from his belt; without it he would feel naked. This knife plays a myriad of functions: from slitting a throat (sheep, human, Russian) to cutting a piece of bread or slicing a watermelon."

Recently, my colletor friend Sa'ar Nudel wrote from Israel to let me know that
"The Pichok is by no means a repro, but a using piece done to these very days. The materials show the change of time, when plastic is more availale for handle rather bone, horn or ivory. In the recent movie "Luna Papa" (German/Tajiki cooperation) filmed on loction in Tajikistan with local tribesmen, several can be seen with pichoks hanging from the belts."

More intersting stuff and pix here:

According to the archaeological data, knife manufacture on the territory of Uzbekistan has long been known. Knives had different magical protective functions. This is witnessed by the names of different knives, which were called on to protect people from evil spirits. There were also popular beliefs about the antidote for venomous snake bites being the touch of a knife haft. It was considered that if there was a sacred knife in the house, a son would be born. It was also believed that the water used in the process of knife grinding could cure illnesses, and the masters of the craft considered the knife to be sacred.

How much fascinating stuff and culture got locked up or lost when the Soviet Union and China swallowed up places like this??
 
I really think a kris would be a natural thing for the kamis to make. They are more "tribal", are traditionally made with scrap steel, and have wooden sheaths. They also have deep spiritual importance, here is part of an artice called "Swords of Iron, Swords of Steel" by bruce edwards blackistone:

"At the other extreme, the Javanese kris has far more power as a magical talisman, cultural badge and work of art than it has as a weapon. Kris are reputed to leap into the hand when the owner is attacked; to rattle in the scabbard when danger approaches; to sigh in disappointment when sheathed. Many are said to be able to direct flames and help put out house fires, while some are so potent that merely stabbing an enemies foot print will ensure his demise. Meteoric iron is used in some kris not so much for its superior quality or contrasting beauty (although these are valid virtues) but because of its magical associations."

THE KRIS

Kris range in size from large daggers to short swords, from about nine inches to two feet. They are widely divergent in details and widely dispersed over a large area of the southeast Pacific islands. They usually have double-edged thrusting blades, predominantly in a wavy pattern. These waves, called "lok," are always made in an odd number. Blades can have no lok at all, following a straight, thin profile, or have 17 or more lok depending on style, local custom, and personal desire. At its base the blade flares out asymmetrically in the "ganja" which serves in the office of a cross guard. The tang is relatively thin and is encased by the handle, which is frequently of a pistol grip design. Of greatest Interest to us is the "pamor" or texture of the blade. This is valued by the owners and creators for its beauty and originality. As the blade is forged, various steels are laminated together. These may include meteoric nickel-iron, wrought iron, truck spring, file, or stainless steel. The result is a strong blade with markings or textures running from subtle hues of steel on a highly polished blade to a distinctly and purposely rough outer side layers. (These blades are known as "5 sharps," referring to the point, 2 cutting edges and 2 abrasive sides.)

"The smith or "empu" may use various techniques to enhance the spiritual value and potency of the weapon. A smith may work on it just one day a year, or only by the full moon (or new moon). One smith quenched a kris by drawing It through his armpit and, then plunging it in the slack tub; a female smith went him one better by first drawing her kris through the lips of her nether regions! (In light of recent literature about fire walking, anxiety-induced moisture may explain the mechanism of these acts. But the symbolic significance holds the center stage: this smith was willing to give it everything.)

Such a creation, and the acts- heroic or evil- committed with it, further enhanced its spiritual power. A friend's wife, while working in Indonesia, was allowed to examine the kris of the family she staved with. She was later informed that it held the soul of the family! A high honor indeed.

In actual structure the kris is a relatively straightforward (despite the lok) laminated blade, using the various qualities of the steel and iron incorporated therein. It is sharp, durable, and deadly; and reflects the pride, skill, and wealth of its makers and bearers."

I understand that the beliefs of the people of Java are differant from those of the people of Nepal, but I can dream cant I? Sorry to use so much space... :(
 
munk said:
You newer folks should know Bill has said "no' to tomahawks because of handle problems. We will see no throwing hawks. munk
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All I want is the hawk head. I'll furnish the handle.
 
Sounds right to me, Semper. But there was something about those not able to make their own handles..I can't recall everything, can I?

But yeah, hawk heads.


munk
 
munk said:
Sounds right to me, Semper. But there was something about those not able to make their own handles..I can't recall everything, can I?

But yeah, hawk heads.


munk
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You're right Munk. We even discussed getting the 'hawks made with a standard eye so that we could buy replacement handles from Crazy Crow but Bill felt like it would be an impossible task.
It would've been great to have had them but it's one of those things like a 17" to 18" Foxy Folly. It just ain't gonna happen.:(
 
Put me down for a hawk head as well. Semp...we can carry those instead of ball peens.
 
It would've been great to have had them but it's one of those things like a 17" to 18" Foxy Folly. It just ain't gonna happen.>>>> Yvsa

Here's another one from the, "aint gonna happen"
Many signed during the Bura BDC sign up thread for a 10" or 14" khuk. I and one other person asked for a 16 or 18" version, so we could really get some use out of it. Dan did not react to this, and no long version was made. No one appeared to be interested.

Guess what Tora's new flagship model is? Yep. Except for the absence of a second fuller, their new WWl model, which is absolutely gorgeous btw, is for all extent and purposes a Bura BDC- made to around 18" or more . Even the handle is close.
Now, this form is not unique to Bura or anyonelse- it has been around. Tora simply experimented until such time as they got what they wanted from Nepal.

So if you mourn the absence of a Foxy Folly, I'll add my cry to the absence of a legitimate working/fighting 18" BDC

munk
 
18 inch BDC , another cause lost to the ages. shame though. Would go for that.
My words are too little too late though, sorry I would have supported that.
 
Allowing us to hilt them and try out our leatherworking skills etc.
Love to see them do a roman gladius,
really try out a scandinavian leuko/pukko combo,
that's all I can think of now.
 
I like to see the existing and new knives with;
-Polished steel fittings or whitemetal
-A mixture of polished steel and brass
-Carved handles and sheaths
-Different types of inlay materials and patterns in handles and sheaths.
-Different style sheaths like some of the indonisian wood or carved designs
-Tooled leather sheaths
-A shelf or stand for displaying Khuks
- More intricate designs in handles
-Different woods for handles and sheaths
-A totally polished steel khuk , handle, blade and all
-Stacked handle materials like bone, wood and brass
-Metal inlay sheaths
-Sheaths of different fabric material
-Combination sets of knives or knife and sword
-Etching of design on top of blade or along the top edge
-Buttcaps that wrap around handle in a pattern
-Bolster that blens into a handle design with brass or polished steel.
-More YCS type of knives with different handle configurations

Well if they can expand on the design and materials, then the quality is there and the people are here waiting to buy. :cool:
 
Even if you were are an exceptionally proficient communicator, and used to the foibles of dealing with other cultures with our inherent standards and mindset, the parameters you request are indeed desireable, albeit difficult to consistently procure.

H.I. might benefit itself with a custom department, with buyers willing to pay a generous premium for the hassle of having these projects bought to their positve culmination... Uncle Bill has posted the most straightfoward e-mails immaginable sent to Nepal, and the responses were, to say the least, intersting. I too, hope that the "special projects department" continues to improve...

Indeed, I recently ordered a special order khukuri, but not wanting to tax Uncle Bill's many areas of concern, promised to accept full responsibility if the project failed. I paid in full after the request was accepted; BTW. Why? Because I enjoy shots at exclusivity for exceptional products, and I knew Uncle Bill would support the order if dismmised of any responsibility.

I feel that a magical order has been successfully submitted and will be produced. I also feel fortunate that H.I. values me as a customer in having had accepted my order. :D I feel that Uncle Bill sees a need for the custom orders, and trust that Gelbu and Yangdu are learning each day more and more how to deal with us fickle customers, and the even more producers of these fine knives...
 
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