Karambit Question

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Wolfeye

Joined
Apr 26, 2015
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Hey, everyone. I've got a question: I'm looking to get a karambit, but I have a hard time picking between the Spyderco Kerahawk & the one from Fox Knives (whichever one is more portable, I don't remember the number). A major point is that I want to be able to flick it open against my sleeve like Doug Marcadia did in one of his videos. I'm leaning toward the Spyderco, but haven't been able to find much in the way of video comparisons. I was hoping for at least one cutting demonstration against a ham or something.

I know I can get them custom-forged at Karambit.com, but I don't have that kind of money right now & was looking to test out a couple that are already around for inspiration anyway. I think I'd really like the general style of the Spyderco, but would like a solid ring & dull metal. Maybe even a straight blade like the Dart.

Either way, I want a karambit for my collection & I'm not entirely sure which way to go. The Spyderco is about $50 more, but seems to be the better design. Anyone got experience with either or both?

P.S.- If anyone has any tricks for making that wave on the back of the Spyderco perform like I mentioned above, please let me know. That's a handy trick that I don't think you could get as reliably with a cable tie through the thumb hole (although that IS a useful trick).
 
You should be able to draw a waved karambit with the blade in the locked position, no extra step required.
 
Waved for sure.
 
Absolutely waved. If you're right handed, set the clip up lefty, carry right side and as soon as you put your trigger finger through that ring and pull it should be out and locked-IMO the wave draw into reverse grip is more natural than forward grip. Whichever one you get, try to handle them first-a kaeambit that's too big is a PITA, and one too small will bite you.
Incidentally if you live somewhere where the ring will get you "knuckle duster" hassles, get a waved matriarch, put a big bead on it to index your draw and set it up the same way. It'll do all but the flip/extended techniques and I wouldn't try those in a scrap anyway. I always liked the looks of the karahawk myself.
 
[video=youtube;Nx3K0oaQqdA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx3K0oaQqdA[/video]
 
Wolfeye said:
Hey, everyone. I've got a question: I'm looking to get a karambit, but I have a hard time picking between the Spyderco Kerahawk & the one from Fox Knives (whichever one is more portable, I don't remember the number). A major point is that I want to be able to flick it open against my sleeve like Doug Marcadia did in one of his videos. I'm leaning toward the Spyderco, but haven't been able to find much in the way of video comparisons. I was hoping for at least one cutting demonstration against a ham or something.

I know I can get them custom-forged at Karambit.com, but I don't have that kind of money right now & was looking to test out a couple that are already around for inspiration anyway. I think I'd really like the general style of the Spyderco, but would like a solid ring & dull metal. Maybe even a straight blade like the Dart.

Either way, I want a karambit for my collection & I'm not entirely sure which way to go. The Spyderco is about $50 more, but seems to be the better design. Anyone got experience with either or both?

P.S.- If anyone has any tricks for making that wave on the back of the Spyderco perform like I mentioned above, please let me know. That's a handy trick that I don't think you could get as reliably with a cable tie through the thumb hole (although that IS a useful trick).
Click to expand...

My man, I have a fixed that will be on Karambit.com that was at Blade 2015 as an exclusive. It has rippers and a fast deploy kydex sheath. Email me and maybe we can work something out.
 
XxFULLPOWERxX: Sounds interesting. I'm actually looking for a folder, simply for legal issues (I'm in New York, one of the biggest ball-breaking states I know of with that). Still, I'll take a look at it. What's the name on it?
 
I really like the Spyderco and the Emerson...

[video=youtube;mPcNv6wi88M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPcNv6wi88M[/video]
 
Wolfeye said:
Hey, everyone. I've got a question: I'm looking to get a karambit, but I have a hard time picking between the Spyderco Kerahawk & the one from Fox Knives (whichever one is more portable, I don't remember the number). A major point is that I want to be able to flick it open against my sleeve like Doug Marcadia did in one of his videos. I'm leaning toward the Spyderco, but haven't been able to find much in the way of video comparisons. I was hoping for at least one cutting demonstration against a ham or something.

I know I can get them custom-forged at Karambit.com, but I don't have that kind of money right now & was looking to test out a couple that are already around for inspiration anyway. I think I'd really like the general style of the Spyderco, but would like a solid ring & dull metal. Maybe even a straight blade like the Dart.

Either way, I want a karambit for my collection & I'm not entirely sure which way to go. The Spyderco is about $50 more, but seems to be the better design. Anyone got experience with either or both?

P.S.- If anyone has any tricks for making that wave on the back of the Spyderco perform like I mentioned above, please let me know. That's a handy trick that I don't think you could get as reliably with a cable tie through the thumb hole (although that IS a useful trick).
Click to expand...

Not sure what you're saying here. The Karahawk is waved from the factory. If the DART's wave will engage a sleeve, so will the Spyderco's, because it's a larger hook. The DART is more intuitive for a novice since it's a straight blade, and it has a trainer available that the Karahawk doesn't (as do the other Fox k-bits). There's also another option although it's not yet available: the Browning Vanquish. It's also got a straight blade but it doesn't wave--it's got a kinetic opening/impact stub. In the videos for it, Jared Wihongi manages to open it against the pocket but never demonstrates the kinetic opening method as they licensed the design from Krudo Knives SNAG series. The Vanquish is much less expensive (MSRP is $40 or so) but has only a liner lock, no trainer, and I doubt it would open safely from a sleeve draw.
 
Smokingape: Thanks for the vid. I did see that one, but have you ever found any that show someone cutting with it? I saw one or two others with the Spyderco Kerahawk, but none with someone using it on meat or anything.

average gimp: You might be right about that wave, I didn't think of that. As far as designs go, I can get a custom one made a Karambit.com, but I'm just looking for something that I can use & to draw inspiration from. I want it as close to the finished idea as possible so I have something that works well in the mean time.

I figure I'll probably wind up with a bit of a collection, but I'd definitely want a waved tanto & a waved karambit in my collection (both with the karambit-style handle). I don't know if it would be lockback or axis lock, but I'd definitely want dull metal all around & for it to be slim enough to not be a pain in the ass (literally, since sitting in a chair with something thick-handled would probably be a day-to-day issue).

Here's a dilemma: While I do somewhat lean toward a striaght blade if it was the only one I was going to carry, I like the karambit a lot for the effects your movements have with it. That quick incapacitation can be a literal life-saver, especially if you had to deal with more than one entity (as some use dogs for combative purposes). Being able to get someone out of the fight quickly might be more important than if you deal eventually fatal damage. Then again, if you have less options in what you can go after & how you can go after it (like you do with the karambit) then you might be SOL- regardless of what you COULD have done. You see my issue?

So much could be solved if wearing full-fledged daggers & such was back "in fashion." A finger ring on a 7-inch unfinished blade with a double edge, an abrupt tip (so it's like a tanto, but pierces a bit better), and a section for your thumb to go against for other stuff (like woodcarving) would be good for most things. If the blade overhung the handle like on a butcher knife (so you don't NEED to get your finger through the ring on the fly) & it was balanced for throwing (because it CAN be thrown, even if it's not always easy to pull off), that would be AWESOME (in my opinion). Think I'll add that to the list of things to get forged. Any thoughts on this design?
 
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Wolfeye said:
Here's a dilemma: While I do somewhat lean toward a striaght blade if it was the only one I was going to carry, I like the karambit a lot for the effects your movements have with it. That quick incapacitation can be a literal life-saver, especially if you had to deal with more than one entity (as some use dogs for combative purposes). Being able to get someone out of the fight quickly might be more important than if you deal eventually fatal damage. Then again, if you have less options in what you can go after & how you can go after it (like you do with the karambit) then you might be SOL- regardless of what you COULD have done. You see my issue?

So much could be solved if wearing full-fledged daggers & such was back "in fashion." A finger ring on a 7-inch unfinished blade with a double edge, an abrupt tip (so it's like a tanto, but pierces a bit better), and a section for your thumb to go against for other stuff (like woodcarving) would be good for most things. If the blade overhung the handle like on a butcher knife (so you don't NEED to get your finger through the ring on the fly) & it was balanced for throwing (because it CAN be thrown, even if it's not always easy to pull off), that would be AWESOME (in my opinion). Think I'll add that to the list of things to get forged. Any thoughts on this design?
Click to expand...

1) K-bits are a short-range (for knives) compromise tool. I prefer the handle ergos (in jeans, a waved 5.11 is my EDC). However, I've only got useful movement in one direction--forward slashing. The retraction movement is useless except for rechambering. With a straight knife edge-forward, you've got a forward slash and a potential stab on the retraction. With the edge to the rear, you've got a forward stab and a rip on the retraction. There's just more you can do with the straight blade.

2) Your design is intriguing. If you mean the ring would be on the pommel, then you've reinvented the ring dagger, which Cold Steel already has in two models, albeit without the Besh wedge-like tip you describe. If you mean the ring to be offset to one side, the combo of the kitchen/gaucho/Perrin style self-guard and the offset ring would make it really awkward for throwing as it would be asymmetrical. A dagger with a kitchen-style blade would be an odd stabber as the point wouldn't be aligned with the center of the pommel, anyway.

Besides which, throwing knives and combat knives are two different animals. For fighting I see a throwing knife as a distraction that allows me to break contact and get to a better tool, or to close and finish. This brings to mind the Sayoc/Atienza guys, for whom throwing knives (and carrying a LOT of them) is a big deal. That, and selling "rigs" that cost a bloody fortune, with training knives that cost more than many folders I own. Looks fun in practice but strikes me as unrealistic and indefensible for EDC. And under no circumstances would I throw my high-dollar custom blade. Cheap screwdrivers, pens, butter knives, ashtrays or similar objects, fine, but not an expensive knife.
 
Didn't think of that with the backward stab & the rip on the pull-back. It's one of those things that would occur to me if it was in front of me, but not in thoughts. The thing is that I'd definitely have more options with the straight blade (both in what I can go for & how I can go for it), but what I can get might not work immediately. Plenty of people get stabbed & think it was just a punch until a little later. The slash with a straight blade might not even get through the clothes because there isn't a solid cutting platform (clothing, fat, non-rigid muscle- all that can keep the blade from making a deep cut). A stab & rip is possible with a straight blade, but is not as smooth of a motion.

What I like with the karambit is that it's like whipping out a Saiga shotgun & going to work- even though it IS a bit limited compared to a rifle, it'd be absolutely devastating & it would be this way IMMEDIATELY. The problem is that this is only with stuff that you can generally do. If you don't have that "80% of the time" or whatever, you're more or less screwed. I know that you can DO a lot of thigns with both & it's just a question of what road you take, but I'm thinking that with the karambit you can be something of a wave brushing over them- with the straight blade, you kind of have to "soak in." That could be time you don't have if the next guy's got a gun.

The idea I'm thinking of with the fixed blade would have everything lined-up straight, but with a ring on the pommel like on a karambit. The overhang is just in case you can't catch the ring for some reason (extreme rush, wearing mittens or a partial cast, etc...). This Besh Wedge wasn't what I was originally thinking, but it sounds pretty interesting- maybe put that in instead.
 
I've definitely got to try a karambit side-by-side with a Fox Dart or something like it on a ham, I think that'll definitely go a long way. Of course, then I have to buy a ham... damn, that'll probably set me back $50 or $60- minimum. Oh, and then there's the well over $100 per knife. And then there's whatever custom job I might want to have made & possibly a more refined design after trying THAT out. Anyone else think it's crazy to pick up a part time job just to buy gear? Not ATVs or boats or anything, although... .

On that: Anyone know of any good blacksmithing courses? I know Dave Canterbury has one from time to time, but I'm hoping for something in the New York area. I was just thinking about how much it would cost me to get the various stuff I figured out & I thought: "Holy Sh#*! I better get set-up & skilled enough to do my own forging!" I figure the fixed blade or otherwise "solid" stuff, I could probably do myself with some practice. The folders, unless I'm greatly mistaken, I'd need stuff to make the various small components- just hitting the steel with a hammer wouldn't do it. If figure if I can get axes, knives, awls, pack frames, and all that done myself- that would be a good way to get good gear & save A LOT of money. Seriously, have you guys ever had a "mental car crash moment" when you look at how much some of these custom jobs can cost? And so many don't even tailor-make things, they just forge the stuff they have & it costs $1000 or more.
 
All my kerambit have cost around $300... buy quality and only cry once.
 
Wolfeye said:
On that: Anyone know of any good blacksmithing courses?
Click to expand...

For home study there's Ron Hood's Woodmaster Vol. 9 video; very reasonably priced and shows you how to forge blades with very little investment in tools. However, I think a k-bit would be a very ambitious first build, and best left to stock-removal, which would require a much larger investment in tools.
 
I think I have that one somewhere. I liked his desert video (I think it came with vehicle repair stuff in it). I was very suprised to find out that TRANSPIRATION BAGS work better than solar stills. I'm actually not set up to practice that right now, but I'll look for it. Thanks for reminding me.

Speaking of which: There was some kind of DVD set called "Poor Man's Forge" or something like that which mentioned using a fire brick as a forge. Apparently, you can drill a large hole through it for the metal to go in & a small tunnel to connect it to a torch. I think the whole thing comes in at under $50. Anyone remember what that one was?
 
Wolfeye said:
Speaking of which: There was some kind of DVD set called "Poor Man's Forge" or something like that which mentioned using a fire brick as a forge. Apparently, you can drill a large hole through it for the metal to go in & a small tunnel to connect it to a torch. I think the whole thing comes in at under $50. Anyone remember what that one was?
Click to expand...

You're thinking of Paladin's "Making Do Vol. 1: The Poor Man's Forge." That one was done by another "Neo-Tribal Bladesmith," as with Woodsmaster 9, which had Tai Goo and Tim Lively, although the latter has dropped off the radar.
 
average gimp said:
1) K-bits are a short-range (for knives) compromise tool. I prefer the handle ergos (in jeans, a waved 5.11 is my EDC). However, I've only got useful movement in one direction--forward slashing. The retraction movement is useless except for rechambering. With a straight knife edge-forward, you've got a forward slash and a potential stab on the retraction. With the edge to the rear, you've got a forward stab and a rip on the retraction. There's just more you can do with the straight blade.

2) Your design is intriguing. If you mean the ring would be on the pommel, then you've reinvented the ring dagger, which Cold Steel already has in two models, albeit without the Besh wedge-like tip you describe. If you mean the ring to be offset to one side, the combo of the kitchen/gaucho/Perrin style self-guard and the offset ring would make it really awkward for throwing as it would be asymmetrical. A dagger with a kitchen-style blade would be an odd stabber as the point wouldn't be aligned with the center of the pommel, anyway.

Besides which, throwing knives and combat knives are two different animals. For fighting I see a throwing knife as a distraction that allows me to break contact and get to a better tool, or to close and finish. This brings to mind the Sayoc/Atienza guys, for whom throwing knives (and carrying a LOT of them) is a big deal. That, and selling "rigs" that cost a bloody fortune, with training knives that cost more than many folders I own. Looks fun in practice but strikes me as unrealistic and indefensible for EDC. And under no circumstances would I throw my high-dollar custom blade. Cheap screwdrivers, pens, butter knives, ashtrays or similar objects, fine, but not an expensive knife.
Click to expand...

Not really....they're just different styles of knives suited better for different types of fighting. The kerambit is excellent when you get into super close/grappling type combat. The amount of places on the human body that can be exploited by the curved blade is incredible. And the curve means a deeper cut if you slash across in close quarters or hook a body part with it. I Edc a fox 599 and have the trainer for it as well. It's a GREAT blade, and about as solid as you're going to find for that price. Compact, fast, and MEAN. The DART never really did anything for me. The straight blade is pretty useless with the ring because you don't really have the motion in your wrist that you would need for reverse grip stabbing at longer distances, defeating the purpose of the straight blade. And the slashes are similarly weakened because the angle formed when gripping it in reverse is too shallow to give a deep slash. So I sold mine and kept the 599. Much better IMO

Ideally for a kerambit Id like to be carrying a double edged fixed blade because it gives you more options. With the single edged folder, you don't really have a back slash, and trapping between the spine of the blade and your arm is a little bit sketchy when you remember it's just a liner lock. But once you learn to use the 599 correctly, it's a great defensive blade.

Good luck to the OP finding the one for him
 
Krissig12: Thanks! I agree about the fixed blade karambit (particularly in unfinished steel). I might be able to carry one of those in a place without knife laws (or decently loose ones), but the problem is accessing it. Sometimes you need to do it in different ways & the folder gives you more options (ex: you can reach across yourself & pull it out for a foward grip- can be useful if you're injured or wrestling with someone). Plus, you more or less need a sheath for that- the handle IS the sheath on a folder, so you can put it in your coat/bag/pouch/etc.

I hope I'll be able to do that, too. Apparently, it's a little harder than I thought to get custom karambits done. Some of the stuff I wanted, I couldn't get done at Karambit.com (patent issues). I really would like to just get or make something like a Spydero Kerahawk, but in dull metal & with a solid ring on it- maybe a little more curve for good measure. The whole thing in titanium on top of it would be great.

Guess I'll need to get into metalwork- anyone know where to find out how to make folders & such? I'm fairly clear on the theory of making fixed blades, but the small parts on folders seem like something you need special tools or machines to make.
 
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