katars/kattars....

katar3.jpg


from Stone, pg. 347, fg. 434, no. 30: Round fluted side bars and handles gilded. Watered, panelled blade with a Sanskrit inscription that reads: 'This kadarika katar in the hands of Bundeejaram Lord of Bendee is capable of piercing the temples of elephants, and hence is called The Tongue of the God [sic] of Death'

I suspect it should be 'Goddess of Death', because it's most likely KALI, for several reasons.

Too rich for my blood--wish I could get it. Maybe someone here has the lucre for this piece (other interesting items by same seller too, though all expensive).

cheers, B.
 
Jesus.

That is something else.

I am currently building a pine model katar but I doubt it would be able to go through an elephant's skull.

Of course, elephants are very intelligent creatures and to do such a thing would be highly impolite, to say the least.

-Dave
 
Bill,
You're dreaming again! Wal & you wouldn't know what to do with her,given the choice between a couple of cold brewskis or her,she loses, give Wal. the choice between her OR some NICE wood K handles to work with ,& she loses again!!
jim
 
Pakcik Bill and Fellow Forumites

Quite at beginning of that movie - whereby Asoka came into help when Princess Karubaki, the young prince and the Kalinga General were attacked by a group of warriors - at that episod Princess Karubaki was holding sort of knife which I guess has the shape of Khukuri but with a weird handle ... just like scissor handle!

Anybody knows what sort of knife is that? Is that a Khukuri?

Bollywood movies are popular in Malaysia!

BTW - I read somewhere that gypsy community in Europe and Central Asia are said to be from India - their love on whirling and dancing are quite remarkable!
 
Originally posted by mohd
Pakcik Bill and Fellow Forumites

Quite at beginning of that movie - whereby Asoka came into help when Princess Karubaki, the young prince and the Kalinga General were attacked by a group of warriors - at that episod Princess Karubaki was holding sort of knife which I guess has the shape of Khukuri but with a weird handle ... just like scissor handle!

Anybody knows what sort of knife is that? Is that a Khukuri?
Click to expand...


It's not a khukuri - I believe it's a khanjarli-ish type of dagger. For the benefit of those who haven't seen the movie (& a few more gratuitous photos for Uncle Bill & co. ;) ), this is the scene mohd's referring to I believe:

kareena01.jpg
kareena02.jpg
kareena03.jpg
kareena04.jpg


it looks a lot like the Rare and Unusual 18 C. Hindu Dagger, South India sold by OrientalArms:

5994.jpg


or like the khanjarli they sold.

Originally posted by mohd
Bollywood movies are popular in Malaysia!
Click to expand...
Pity they're not more popular outside of 'Asian cultures'. Fortunately, the UK, USA, &c. have large enough Indian populations that the films are readily available (even if 99% of the buyers are Indian).

Originally posted by mohd
BTW - I read somewhere that gypsy community in Europe and Central Asia are said to be from India - their love on whirling and dancing are quite remarkable!
Click to expand...

Yes, the Romani or Gypsies are originally from India. The language(s) that they speak, also called Romani, has very obvious relations to Hindi, &c. They're a fascinating group--wish I knew more about them. They're said to be a particular caste of performers that decided to leave India--but they've certainly spread quite a bit.

cheers, B.
 
I have something similar; they're called 'churi' or 'churika' in Sanskrit and derivative languages:

churi2.jpg


Hopefully, such movies will help to generate interest and get the ball rolling on the HI Khanjarlis. :D
 
Originally posted by ruel
I have something similar; they're called 'churi' or 'churika' in Sanskrit and derivative languages.
Click to expand...

I thought 'chhuri' & 'chhurika' (in Skt.) just meant "knife" (from 'chhur', "to cut")? Is the word actually specific to this type of knife?

Originally posted by ruel
Hopefully, such movies will help to generate interest and get the ball rolling on the HI Khanjarlis. :D
Click to expand...

I'd be interested! :)

cheers, B.
 
I have a local source for Hong Kong kungfu flicks; now I need to find one for Bollys...

I've seen churi(ka) used as a proper name for these knives in Stone, sv. 'churi,' and in the massive "Symbols of Tibetan Buddhism" published by Shambhala, in which a diagrammed double-curved dagger is glossed in Sanskrit as "churi, churika."

A Javanese synonym for 'keris' is 'curigo' (['churika] in IPA), and I can't help but wonder if it's an Indian loan, even though the two weapons look nothing alike. :confused:
maduranaga1.jpg
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
Another nice picture but I still like Kareena better.
Click to expand...

Well, if someone comes up with more Asoka-weapons maybe I'll have an excuse to post some more Kareena pix. ;)

Originally posted by ruel
I have a local source for Hong Kong kungfu flicks; now I need to find one for Bollys...

I've seen churi(ka) used as a proper name for these knives in Stone, sv. 'churi,' and in the massive "Symbols of Tibetan Buddhism" published by Shambhala, in which a diagrammed double-curved dagger is glossed in Sanskrit as "churi, churika."
Click to expand...

I can refer you to some good online places for Bollywood films.

On the 'chhuri'/'chhurika' - in Sankrit it's just a general word for knife so far as I know (and that's all my *big* Sanskrit dictionary tells me). Maybe it became a specialised word in some of the daughter tongues. I don't know what the Hindi word is off-hand. I don't know that Stone is the best Sanskritist in the world, some of his translations I find a bit suspicious, though he doesn't provide the original to compare.

I don't know enough about Indonesian to know whether 'keris' is an Indian loan. I've read that kris-knives were actually an Indian invention...it's that's true then it would make sense. Especially as 'chhuri', at least originally, just translates as 'knife'.

In any case, I like your 'chhuri'!


cheers, B.
 
For all you linguistic experts my little Nepali-English dictionary I keep on my desk has the following words for knife:

cakku
syagi
karda

But when I lived in Nepal I often heard folks refer to a knife as a "chupi" which I think is a corruption of the Sanscrit word -- a pretty common occurence in Nepal
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
For all you linguistic experts my little Nepali-English dictionary I keep on my desk has the following words for knife:

cakku
syagi
karda

But when I lived in Nepal I often heard folks refer to a knife as a "chupi" which I think is a corruption of the Sanscrit word -- a pretty common occurence in Nepal
Click to expand...

Thanks for the ling info Uncle Bill :). 'cakku' is probably another 'Sanskrit corruption' from 'chhurika'.

'karda' may be from Old Indic/Sanskrit too. Sanskrit 'kartrii'="knife" (related to the word 'kartr' "do-er, one who acts" and 'karma' = "action")

'chakma' might even be from the same word because [reasons deleted because they became too convaluted for me to explain easily]. Or 'chakma' could be from the Sanskrit root 'chakaas', which means "to shine, to be bright"--if one thinks of the 'chakma' in a 'polishing'-capacity.

These all are just casual guesses from paging through my Sanskrit dictionary, so don't take any of them too seriously ;) ;) :p

B.
 
Who can know for sure? In places where the literacy rate is very low it's quite easy for words to become corrupted.
 
Originally posted by Bill Martino
Who can know for sure? In places where the literacy rate is very low it's quite easy for words to become corrupted.
Click to expand...

Hate to interject-but this is my area of expertise, language-change:

(1) 'corruption' is loaded term used to 'code' one language as being better than another. Language changes, it's just what happens. Is Modern English corrupted from Old English? Is American English corrupt compared to British English? (OK-the latter one's a bad example ;) :p )

Of course, in a sense all non-Sanskrit languages are corrupt compared to Sanskrit, if one uses Sanskrit terminology ;) . Sanskrit means 'perfected'! As opposed to 'Prakrit' (a Sanskrit term for non-Sanskrit Indic languages, like Hindi, Gurkhali, Bengali, &c.), which means 'rough, raw, natural, unformed'.

(2) I don't think literacy rate has much to do with language change. Look at the vast number of English dialects. There's quite a bit of difference between a Cockney or Estruary-English speaker, an Australian speaker, a Texan speaker, a RP speaker, a General American speaker, a Philadelphia speaker, a Boston speaker, a South-African speaker, &c., even if we just consider the literate middle-class for instance. And a lot of these changes have happened in the hundred years--I don't think reading/writing ability has much to do with changing pronounciation and changes in syntax.

Sorry for the pseudo-'lecture' :rolleyes: --but, being my profession, I feel obliged to disillusion people from the viewpoint that language evolves/is corrupted. That doesn't mean I don't have views on what sorts of English are 'correct' (or that other people can't), but I realise that those views are subjective, social judgements-- not 'scientific' ones.

Though I think your point was probably that no 'records' have been kept so that one couldn't trace the origin of a Nepalese word. However, most languages don't have such records--one can most likely guesses at origins by comparing words in related languages and trying to pick out systematicity in types of change ('corruption').

cheers, B.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top