Katrina changed your BoB philosophy?

merlin, that's nice.

Moving on, I just came across another strong reason to include arms in your BOB preparations.

NO Law Officers, Overwhelmed, Are Quitting the Force
(click on "Skip This Ad" in upper right corner to get to article)

This is a given, to a greater or lesser degree, in any major disaster situation. Law Enforcement personnel WILL become overwhelmed--mentally, emotionally, physically, and in lack of manpower or logistics. Something to consider when preparing for a natural disaster or terrorist attack.
 
LEO's would become overwhelmed?
The MAYOR was overwhelmed.

What's the rule of thumb for water...
How much per person (holed up in the house as opposed to hiking/working) per day?
How and where does one store 2 weeks of water for 4 people, in an urban environment?

NVG were something I never considered. Then again, they need batteries...another 'mouth' to feed.

FWIW,
I have to say that while firearms have their place, don't let anyone know they are around.
The National Guard, State Troopers & local PD don't know that you are a law abiding citizen.
They only see a guy with a gun.
Not a good guy.
Not a bad guy.
A guy with a gun.
:eek:
 
Ebbtide, My rule of thumb is 1 gallon of water per person per day for drinking and food prep. Sanitation and first aid are extra allocations.

Your family of four for two weeks at one gallon per person per day equals 56 gallons of water. Call it a 55 gallon drum's worth. If there's kids involved, I'd add some extra. They don't understand why they can't drink as much as they'd like or as they always have before.

Realistically, I'd be looking at keeping four or five (maybe more) of those 55 gallon drums on hand if you're serious about your water supply handling all needs (cleaning of bodies, clothes, dishes, house/environment). Rationing becomes important.

As to how/where to store the water, anywhere it fits. Like in the garage, garden or tool shed, basement, ..... anywhere it's cool and out of sight.

Here are links to water storage info:
http://waltonfeed.com/self/water.html
http://www.emprep.com/water_storage.html
http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/foods/g1536.htm
http://www.annapolis.gov/public_news.asp?ID=6769 (very basic, as are most govt websites)
http://www.nationalterroralert.com/readyguide/safewater.htm (Homeland Security site)
----------------------
(rave mode on)
Unfortunately, Katrina won't induce any more preparedness in the American populace than did 9/11/01 World Trade Center attack, Hurricane Andrew, or any other previous natural or man-made disaster/emergency. There have been plenty of "wake-up calls" given already and, as so many of the folks on the Gulf Coast show, they chose to do no preparation for possible hard times. I call it the "ostrich syndrome" because these folks keep their heads obstinately stuck in the sand, being unwilling to acknowledge that when TSHTF it could land in their neighborhood.

Or, more dangerously, they choose to believe the the government will take care of them (as if the govt gives a s**t about their family) when the deal goes down. It's more dangerous because it lulls them into believing there's going to magically be a safety net under the tightrope we all walk daily (it's called LIFE and it has inherent & intrinsic dangers to it, recognize that fact and deal with it). IMHO it's up to us to recognize that when the deal goes down we will each be individually responsible for taking care of ourself and our family.

As in previous disasters, the efficiency and ability of American individuals and organizations to render aid to each other far outstrips the behemoth staggering of the govt's aid mechanisms. We need to remember the value of government to take care of BIG issues like highways, utilities, airports, and other infrastructure elements. That's macro management. But aid is rendered one person at a time, which is micro-action. In my experience, this level of performance is better managed and rendered by individuals and small groups than by the (typically bloated) departments, bureaus, and agencies of government.

The illustrative example to me was the executive of a water bottling company who had semi-loads of water headed into the affected area within hours. However, when he called local authorities to inform them of the incoming water, he was told that the trucks wouldn't be allowed in until the locals gave the go-ahead. Here was a man used to making pressure-cookker decisions that affect the many people who work for him, to say nothing of the very life of his company and by extension himself & his family, being stonewalled by some local yokel having trouble dealing with the fact that all the s**t had hit the fan.

Or I can turn on the local Seattle area news any night of the week to see warehouses being filled, emptied into planes/trucks for delivery to the Gulf Coast, then being refilled again by the working stiffs, school classes, office workgroups, soccer moms, elderly who remember the Depression's hard times, and the myriad others who make up the fabric of the American populace.

Uncle Sam is taking care of himself. I intend to do the same.
(rave mode off, thanks for the bandwidth)
 
Thank you for the links. Bookmarked :D
3 55 gallon drums...hmmmm
That comes out to be roughly 1200 pounds of water!
440lbs a piece. Not easy to move. Once filled they are going to stay where they are.
Lots to think about here.

The more I watch the Katrina coverage, the more torn I am concerning 'stay or go'.
You can't get out of NYC on a summer friday or holiday weekend. I can only imagine what it'd be like with an evac notice. That makes me think stay.
Then if you do stay, you face the 'do I have enough' question.
Once it runs out, it runs out.

Again, lots to think about for us city dwellers.
 
Nope.
hasn't changed my BOB one bit. After 20 years of survival preparedness my bob is full of the best money can buy and is fine tuned as it can ever get for my personal needs.

This should be the goal of everyone IMHO.

My foucus these days is on after the bugging out is done, then what? ;)

Skam
 
As a life long resident of South Florida the need to have a 10 day supply of
Food and water is now very evident. Hurricanes are a real possibility that we face every year and it is each person’s responsibility to be repaired.

The problem in New Orleans is the classic example if a welfare state. People that have never been responsible for caring for themselves are suddenly lost when required to. When the zoo keeper is away the animals will run wild and you better be prepared to fend for your self.

Why is it that we seem to hear so little about Biloxi and other areas that are far more devastated than New Orleans?
 
say merlin....is the following statement true?

Truth, for me, is always relative (quote)


if it is, then truth is obviously not relative.

2+2=4 is not relative............truth, by its very definition, can not be relative. if something is relative........its opinion!

why is this so important? because IF truth is relative, then we have no common ground on which to base any discourse with each other.

Peace brother :)
 
bill_G said:
say merlin....is the following statement true?

Truth, for me, is always relative (quote)


if it is, then truth is obviously not relative.

2+2=4 is not relative............truth, by its very definition, can not be relative. if something is relative........its opinion!

why is this so important? because IF truth is relative, then we have no common ground on which to base any discourse with each other.

Peace brother :)

Well said.
 
One think that struck me was that all those sitting in the water who were THIRSTY? Then I realized most people don't think about having the ability to purify water THEN the lights came on and my surrounding were no longer dark stinky and damp and I thought "wait, it's not just water! It's salt/oily/dead-things-have-been-soaking-in-it/raw sewage/chemicals/alien slime and who knows what else water. So how do you get usable water out of that? Do the filters work? The filters with chemical purifiyers? I think some of the steam distillers

(like this one http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm/dp/202/ts/5010481)

might work BUT you would still need quite a bit energy (grill,stove, burner etc) which would be ANOTHER thing to have around. Any ideas?
 
It would be very interesting to figure out how to purify the nasty water that everyone has to wade through. Since a lot of it is probably salt water, I guess the first step would be distillation. I thought that would take out everything, but read somewhere that chemical toxins will distill out also. I would love to know how water treatment plants handle this.
 
For a long while I have had a BOB. But I live in the country and thought that most likely I would be BOB in.

Though I am prepared to BOB out. Some new options specific to NO make me re-evaluate.

I must have multiple BOB directions i.e. North, south etc.

Water storage may not be the way to go. If a flood washes it all away???? is it better to take that chance since we can't predict what our needs might be? Maybe?

I think the iodine bottle is the best water solution for a number of situations.

Total organization is the highest priority, I mean... be able to get as much in your car as quickly as possible. I must admit over the years I have dispersed alot of supplies in my shed, my BOB closet in the house.

I live just outside the area of the hurricane. Our town is accepting refugees. There are people to help, supplies to share, There maybe even some gas stealing. So defensively preparations must be made also some collecting of extra supplies to pass along. Close family who might need some home repairs.

one question that arises in my head is.....would I have evacuated or stayed? It is easy to say I would have left but we have had storms up here and I have stayed. A tough call.
 
I still hold to the "better to be armed"philosophy. At the same time I will mention again that your best bet in such a situation is to be prepared in advance to offer food and water to whoever arrives on your doorstep. Face it, we're decent folks, more inclined to help those in need than to point a gun at them and tell them to move on.

A bottle of water is the cheapest way in the world to make a friend for the duration. Mac
 
Ebbtide said:
That comes out to be roughly 1200 pounds of water!
440lbs a piece. Not easy to move. Once filled they are going to stay where they are.
Yes, drums that big are stationary storage. Not good for most bugout scenarios. For more mobile scenarios, you can use smaller containers or go with larger flexible storage bags like the Aquatank. Or buy a tanker truck. :D

Much of my water storage is 5 gallon jugs I got from Emergency Preparedness in Seattle. (link below) At 8 pounds per gallon of water, each jug is 40 pounds, which is pretty readily handled. As noted on the webpage, I've found the five-gallon square jugs stack pretty well. If the shipping from from their Seattle store to your locale is prohibitive, you could check for similar jugs or barrels from a local emergency suppliers, plastics, or possibly restaurant supply stores.

http://www.emprep.com/water_storage_barrels.html

I got a few spigots for the 5-gallon jugs as well -- a user and a couple spares. Since mounting the spigot requires punching out the center of the jug screw-cap and because the spigot juncture is more likely to leak than the unpunched cap, I only punched out one of the caps, inserted the spigot, and will rotate that cap through jugs as I empty them.

Another nice looking, even cheaper 5-gallon jug I just found while Googling around. To find lots of jugs, search from their homepage on the word "carboys".
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...=usplastic&category_name=15039&product_id=595

Note that big barrels will need a bung wrench and either a pump (if stored standing up) or a spigot (to control water flow if stored horizontally on a stand).

The more I watch the Katrina coverage, the more torn I am concerning 'stay or go'. You can't get out of NYC on a summer friday or holiday weekend. I can only imagine what it'd be like with an evac notice. That makes me think stay. Then if you do stay, you face the 'do I have enough' question. Once it runs out, it runs out.
My approach is to balance my gear to address both scenarios, with the preponderance leaning toward bugging in vs bugging out. I suspect it's because bugging in allows me more control of the situation and resources. Bugging out arbitrarily puts you and your gear on someone else's turf and in their arena of influence/control.

I like the concentric systems advocated by Schwert (IIRC) and others on various forums. It starts with a core kit comprised of his mind, skills, & experience. Then the gear systems increase in size and weight to include kits carried on his person, in a pack, in his vehicle, at his house, etc. Until you get to the "house" level, gear has to be acquired and organized with weight and mobility constraints in mind.

I hear ya on the travel considerations for masses of people in (or getting out of) large cities. While the lack of transit during the northeastern US power outage a while back went pretty smoothly, to my mind that does NOT indicate that such orderliness would be self-imposed by the people during evacuation migrations.
 
Out of curiousity, couldn't you get out of NYC by water? the roads would be
a nightmare but the Hudson river would be relatively clear.


Just a thought.
 
Living in the middle of nowhere, short of some major event happening, I'm in the clear, That hasn't stopped me from loading a week of stuff in my trunk. Carry 4 litres of water with purification for 25 more in there, and living within walking distance to the river makes water easy to find.

9/11 through the city into chaos as our politicians buttoned everything down expecting something to happen up here too, as well as all the incoming planes and impromtu shelters.

The "flooding" this spring/summer was bad enough that roads were closing and the downtown suffered a bit. Never mind some of the houses getting a little flooding in basements.

Going to school this next 8 months, I'll be about 2km from my father's office and 6.5km from home. Thinned down to esentials in my bag, and plan to hoof it home if SHTF here at all(we do get nice blizzards and thundershowers here), get in my car and get driving north... the treeline is 4hrs from here, and if I can get gas 2hrs north I'll be able to get home easily enough after it dies down.
 
fixer27 said:
Out of curiousity, couldn't you get out of NYC by water? the roads would be
a nightmare but the Hudson river would be relatively clear.


Just a thought.


Swim?
:p
:D

That would require a boat, and I'm sure they will all be spoken for.
Boats demand much larger quantities of gas than cars.
While I have a canoe I doubt that I'd make much progress against the tide in the NY Bight.

Thanx for all your ideas and help.
That Schwert has his ducks in a row. I believe his article was on outdoor-magazine.com IIRC
 
Ebbtide said:
Swim?
:p
:D

That would require a boat, and I'm sure they will all be spoken for.
Boats demand much larger quantities of gas than cars.
While I have a canoe I doubt that I'd make much progress against the tide in the NY Bight.

Thanx for all your ideas and help.
That Schwert has his ducks in a row. I believe his article was on outdoor-magazine.com IIRC

Hardy har har. :D
Couldn't you go across the river to get into Jersey? I know "not if you can
help it?" :p
 
After Katrina, the wife and I have been talking about our own emergency plans and here is what we arrived at:

You need to tailor your kit for your specific location and it's risks.
I live in the Charlotte region of North Carolina and (thankfully) we don't have many natural disasters to worry about: just tornados, the occassional ice-storm that causes power outages, and the residual effects of hurricanes (mostly lots of rain and some wind...maybe some fallen trees).

Actually, there are only TWO things that I can imagine that would necessitate an evacuation of my area....
The Catawba Nuclear plant and the Mcguire Nuclear Plant.

If these plants suffer a major radiation leak then evacuation is the ONLY viable option.
I reckon that the roads will be so clogged with traffic that using cars or trucks might not be the best option.
And fuel for vehicles will probably be quickly exhausted due to the mass exodus.

So we are looking at mountain bikes to evacuate the area.
I can carry the bikes in my truck for as far as I can go on the roads, then we can abandon the truck and hit the trails and roads with the bikes.
Along the way, to protect ourselves and our bikes and supplies, we have pistols and a rifle.
And once we are out of the dangerzone we believe that we will need credit cards and cash more than anything else.

Luckily, we have friends and family in various parts of the nation that will help us once we make it to them.

We both agree that we will NEVER allow ourselves to be forced in to some place like the SuperDome.

Allen.
 
skunked said:
One think that struck me was that all those sitting in the water who were THIRSTY? Then I realized most people don't think about having the ability to purify water THEN the lights came on and my surrounding were no longer dark stinky and damp and I thought "wait, it's not just water! It's salt/oily/dead-things-have-been-soaking-in-it/raw sewage/chemicals/alien slime and who knows what else water. So how do you get usable water out of that? Do the filters work? The filters with chemical purifiyers? I think some of the steam distillers

(like this one http://www.realgoods.com/shop/shop2.cfm/dp/202/ts/5010481)

might work BUT you would still need quite a bit energy (grill,stove, burner etc) which would be ANOTHER thing to have around. Any ideas?

I think this is a really good point that you have bought up. I thought about this myself the other day. I'm a bit skeptical that any of the commercial purification rigs could handle anything this contaminated. I came to the conclusion that you would have to forage standing rain water (such as on roof tops that would still be pure) and utilize other sources such as improvised solar stills. You might also be able to find small amounts of water retained in residential piping etc.
 
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