Kelly Axe Manufacturing Thread

Operator1975 · Aug 18, 2012

Well using should depend on what it looks like really.

Square_peg · Aug 19, 2012

bobbywett said:
Is curly maple ok for the handle?

You'd be better served with hickory.

knotwerk · Jan 15, 2014

Looking to date this axe. An abused double bit I purchased cheap and didn't know there was a stamp until I began wire brushing. http://instagram.com/p/jNvDBfF4ZO/

Sluicebox · Jan 19, 2015

I wish that someone would update this thread. I love these historical posts. As soon as the Moderators let me I will post what I found, I think that it is an older kelly flint DB 5 lb unmarked. I wish that I would have found this thread before I BLEW my money on Collins Homesteads, what a waste. My third wish is happy hunting to you all.

Agent_H · Jan 19, 2015

Hi Sluicebox, I think registered users can post pictures - you just aren't given space here to upload them.

Photobucket is the one that many use. There are free ones such as Imageshack that don't require an account. In order to post pictures from off-site you will have to:

1. Make an account there.
2. Choose yours pics and upload them to your account.
3. Choose the photo you want after upload.

4. Tap the pic you want.

5. (Mobile Device) tap the (i) - info, I think.

6. (Mobile Device) tap the link that that starts with *URL=http. It should say "link copied"

7. Paste this into your forum response.

*sorry about that ad there - just a screenshot of what I saw on my phone- just trying to make a walk through for ya.

* I put (Mobile Device) in there as that is what I'm using at the moment but if you are on a desktop/laptop it's not different in procedure, the info is just listed on the right next to the picture.

* Click "Go Advanced" on the lower right of your forum response to temporarily cache your response/off-site picture for the option to "preview" what your post will look like , to make sure you typed what you wanted, and your pictures are showing.

This sounds complicated but after you do it once, it is pretty easy. I guess the reasoning behind not allowing Registered Users to directly upload pics is that it doesn't take resources from the site. Also keeps drive-by users from filling space then disappearing?

Hope that helps with the pics!

Sluicebox · Jan 20, 2015

Thanks Agent H, I will try to figure that out. Oregon here as well. Lots of timber around here to whittle on. Legally of course.

Cdoup · Dec 16, 2015

I have an old Kelly CCC axe (2 actually). I've been toying with the idea of refinishing the two axes and mounting them on a wall for display. Anyone have tips, ideas, concerns about me doing this, original design (paint scheme Kelly used back then)??? The marks are "Flint Edge - Best Axe Made" for both double bits. Any tips would be great...

skillgannon · Dec 16, 2015

I told my wife to keep an eye out for old axes and this was the first thing she found at an antique shop. $25
Its about 3lbs and has only seen light if any use. It just says True Temper Kelly Perfect. The edges are very hard, a file barely cuts at the tips. The handle was warped from leaning against a wall for so many years. I tried to steam it but it didn't work.

Maybe I missed something from the thread but it seams like it still is going to be hard to date this one. I think its a good one but have no idea when it was made.

Bridger · Dec 16, 2015

skillgannon said:
I told my wife to keep an eye out for old axes and this was the first thing she found at an antique shop. $25
Its about 3lbs and has only seen light if any use. It just says True Temper Kelly Perfect. The edges are very hard, a file barely cuts at the tips. The handle was warped from leaning against a wall for so many years. I tried to steam it but it didn't work.

Maybe I missed something from the thread but it seams like it still is going to be hard to date this one. I think its a good one but have no idea when it was made.

Some guys have all the luck. That's a fine axe.

mountainmarty · Oct 31, 2016

Has someone seen this stamping before?

mountainmarty · Oct 31, 2016

Another Kelly Ax Variation. 2.5 lb. Double Bit Cruiser. Anyone seen this stamping before?

Steve Tall · Oct 31, 2016

mountainmarty said:
Another Kelly Ax Variation. 2.5 lb. Double Bit Cruiser. Anyone seen this stamping before?

I found the link hidden in your quoted text, went to imgur and right-clicked on the photo to copy the image location (ending in .jpg) which I pasted here (using the Insert Image icon):

I've seen a bunch of Kelly Hand Made brand axes online, but don't recall seeing a 2.5 pound cruiser stamped that way.

Information from an earlier post shows that the Hand Made brand was Kelly's fifth most expensive brand in 1913, tied with Flint Edge, Black Raven, Vulcan...

Here's a list of Kelly axe brands, from most expensive to least expensive (based on Kelly's 1913 price list):

1. Kelly Registered
2. Columbian
3. Perfect / Hand Honed (tie)
4. Copper King / Silver Edge / Chip Slinger (tie)
5. Flint Edge / Vulcan / Black Raven / Hand Made ... (tie)
6. Wood Slasher / Jim Dandy (tie)

The Kelly Registered cost 33% more than the Kelly Perfect.
Kelly Perfect cost more than Black Raven.
Black Raven and Hand Made cost the same as Flint Edge.
Wood Slasher was the lowest-cost brand.

(Cost are generally listed as per dozen heads, and the cost difference between brands can be relatively small.)

from National Hardware Bulletin, September, 1913

mountainmarty · Nov 1, 2016

Thanks Steve Tall! Ok, so I'm a little blown away. Let me get this correct. This Kelly Hand-Made Cruiser could be from 1913!?! Most likely made before 1949? On the other side I can barely make out the stamping that reads "True Temper" with "Kelly Works" beneath it.

Steve Tall · Nov 1, 2016

mountainmarty said:
...Let me get this correct. This Kelly Hand-Made Cruiser could be from 1913!?! Most likely made before 1949? On the other side I can barely make out the stamping that reads "True Temper" with "Kelly Works" beneath it.

Information from another post:

If it says "Kelly Works" it's from no earlier than 1930 (reference).
The earliest "True Temper" axe I've seen advertised was from 1938 (or thereabouts, exact date of ad is unclear).
Kelly Works shut down on May 28, 1982. (reference)

Steve Tall said:
Some clarifications, and it's complicated.

True Temper Kelly Perfect Axes were being advertised in 1938, as far as I know:
http://books.google.com/books?id=JQNEAAAAIAAJ&q=%22true+temper%22+axe&dq=%22true+temper%22+axe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rAtrU42OC8n4oAS4_oH4Ag&ved=0CG4Q6AEwCQ
So, if an axe says "True Temper" it could be from as early as 1938 (or perhaps earlier?)

Here are some details of the True Temper puzzle:

Based on info from yesteryearstools.com,
If it says "Kelly Works" it's from 1930 or later.

Acquisition of Kelly Axe Mfg. Co. and Operation as Kelly Works 1930-1949+
Corporation Name Changed to True Temper 1949-1987+
from http://www.yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/American%20Fork%20%26%20Hoe%20Co..html

1949 is the year that American Fork and Hoe (owner of Kelly Axe since 1930) changed the A.F.&H. name to True Temper, BUT there were some True Temper axes out there before 1949.
Here's an ad from 1941 for True Temper axes:
http://books.google.com/books?id=iycDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA221&dq=%22true%20temper%22%20axe&pg=PA221#v=onepage&q=%22true%20temper%22%20axe&f=false

A reference to "Kelly True Temper axes" from 1939:
[link no longer works]

American Fork & Hoe was using the True Temper brand as early as 1907...

mountainmarty · Nov 1, 2016

Thanks again Steve! Amazingly complicated history, but it seems to be all there. This places the ax between 1930 and 1949. I'll be doing a light restoration being this specimen was blued and not painted.

Square_peg · Nov 1, 2016

Steve Tall said:
I've seen a bunch of Kelly Hand Made brand axes online, but don't recall seeing a 2.5 pound cruiser stamped that way.

Information from an earlier post shows that the Hand Made brand was Kelly's fifth most expensive brand in 1913, tied with Flint Edge, Black Raven, Vulcan...

Here's a list of Kelly axe brands, from most expensive to least expensive (based on Kelly's 1913 price list):

1. Kelly Registered
2. Columbian
3. Perfect / Hand Honed (tie)
4. Copper King / Silver Edge / Chip Slinger (tie)
5. Flint Edge / Vulcan / Black Raven / Hand Made ... (tie)
6. Wood Slasher / Jim Dandy (tie)

The Kelly Registered cost 33% more than the Kelly Perfect.
Kelly Perfect cost more than Black Raven.
Black Raven and Hand Made cost the same as Flint Edge.
Wood Slasher was the lowest-cost brand.

(Cost are generally listed as per dozen heads, and the cost difference between brands can be relatively small.)

from National Hardware Bulletin, September, 1913

I would make a few suppositions based on their pricing scheme. I suspect that they had only 2 or possibly 3 levels of steel quality. The rest was all stylistic differences.

It's easy to guess that the Woodslasher and Jim Dandy lines were of the cheaper steel. The Kelly Standard and New Era lines wold be upscale versions of the Woodslasher class axes.
Similarly the 'Flint Edge' class axes were of the same (higher) quality steel. The increased cost of the Perfect could be explained by using that same steel and adding the full polish. These older Perfects wouldn't have the hardened poll that was advertised in later editions. The other higher priced axes could also be explained by stylistic improvements of the Flint Edge class axes.

The 'Registered' may be a 3rd steel class or it could be that the increase in cost was simply due to the quality of finish and paying for the warranty. There also might have been higher QC in the production of the Registered axes.

Any one have an opinion about this? Are there more logical divisions?

Steve Tall · Nov 1, 2016

Square_peg said:
I would make a few suppositions based on their pricing scheme. I suspect that they had only 2 or possibly 3 levels of steel quality. The rest was all stylistic differences.

It's easy to guess that the Woodslasher and Jim Dandy lines were of the cheaper steel. The Kelly Standard and New Era lines wold be upscale versions of the Woodslasher class axes.
Similarly the 'Flint Edge' class axes were of the same (higher) quality steel. The increased cost of the Perfect could be explained by using that same steel and adding the full polish. These older Perfects wouldn't have the hardened poll that was advertised in later editions. The other higher priced axes could also be explained by stylistic improvements of the Flint Edge class axes.

The 'Registered' may be a 3rd steel class or it could be that the increase in cost was simply due to the quality of finish and paying for the warranty. There also might have been higher QC in the production of the Registered axes.

Any one have an opinion about this? Are there more logical divisions?

I have no evidence, but I'll theorize that all the steel (as material coming to the axe factory) could be the same, to simplify the ordering, material storage, process settings, and changeovers from one production run to another. Higher prices could reflect the quality of finish (including amounts of grinding, polishing, fancy paint, packaging), presence of warranty (with a slightly higher price to cover the expected percentage of returns), and higher QC, as mentioned.

Related factors could include a more costly heat treatment for the premium axes. Warren's 1937 catalog states that the tempering process for their Sager brand "requires double the time required for ordinary run of product". Regarding QC costs, the Sager axes had a warranty and were reportedly "carefully inspected in each department" and struck by "several heavy hammer blows" to detect any imperfections.

Also, similar to breweries having cheaper brands that (I've long suspected) are batches that didn''t turn out so well, the axe manufacturer could use a different label for factory "seconds" (and maybe even "thirds"), instead of scrapping them. So some of those cheaper axe labels might be from a run of product that had heat treatment equipment settings that were slightly "off", for example. This might explain an apparent difference in steel quality (even if the steel composition is exactly the same in both cases, and getting what was supposed to be the same heat treatment in both cases).

Square_peg · Nov 1, 2016

Steve Tall said:
Also, similar to breweries having cheaper brands that (I've long suspected) are batches that didn''t turn out so well, the axe manufacturer could use a different label for factory "seconds" (and maybe even "thirds"), instead of scrapping them. So some of those cheaper axe labels might be from a run of product that had heat treatment equipment settings that were slightly "off", for example. This might explain an apparent difference in steel quality (even if the steel composition is exactly the same in both cases, and getting what was supposed to be the same heat treatment in both cases).

You raise very good points.

But it's still a practice to use a lesser steel and a premium steel - look at Council Tools. Still, it would make sense to demote lower quality axes made of high grade steel to lesser line products. Wouldn't surprise me if both happened and still happen.

nzedge · Nov 1, 2016

I also wondered if they used a couple different types of steel.
see below images from the the other kelly axe thread

note on this one for the perfects it says "crucible steel bit"

and for the woodslasher, it says "good grade axe steel"

Steve Tall · Nov 1, 2016

nzedge said:
I also wondered if they used a couple different types of steel.
see below images from the the other kelly axe thread

note on this one for the perfects it says "crucible steel bit"

and for the woodslasher, it says "good grade axe steel"

Thanks for finding the catalog photos. I wish that more descriptions were visible, to determine something more conclusive. As it stands, the first photo (Kelly Perfect) is from a 1930 catalog, and the other photo (with Woodslasher) is from a 1951 catalog (as described in the thread below):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/887793-Kelly-Axe-Mfg-Co-Tool-Co-Tool-Works-True-Temper?p=10061578#post10061578