keltec 12 gauge tactical shotgun. Thoughts?

Great for zombies!
 
gormandu said:
but it seems that the time between shots could make it a liability in a s.h.t.f. (... poop... hitting the fan) situation.
Is this a serious tactical contender, or is it more of a tacticool toy?
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I've been following the KSG since it's Shot Show announcement. How exactly is it any slower than a normal configuration pump action shottie? It's 7 per tube +1 loaded, which is about the same for most pump action shotties. If anything, the reduced recoil because of the bulpup design makes it even faster. Switching between tubes could take a split second, which can be practiced to be manipulated faster, but that is still faster than loading 7 slugs into a tube. You flip a lever versus manually loading slugs or using one of those finicky "speed tube" loader thingamabobs.

Personally, I want a longer lever to switch between tubes, but that's a minor gripe.

This is on my buylist provided it gets great reviews.
 
I've been following the development of the KSG for a while now. I think that it will fill the self defense (and hunting) bill very well. The time between shots will be cut down with the training and range time that any responsible gun owner will carry out before using any weapon in a real world situation. With a standard length barrel in a package that is under 26", and the ability to fire 7 + 7 + 1 rounds of 12 Ga. without reloading, I feel that this weapon is a practical quantum step forward in weapons development. I'm looking forward to getting one as soon as I can after it's released.
 
about the reloading speed. My opinion has changed since I just saw a Nutnfancy guy run it through the paces, and he seemed much more familiar with it than the first video review that I watched. There was a policeman using it, and I think it was probably his first time handling a shotgun. LOL
 
Self-defense and hunting? How much does a fully loaded 15 round shotgun weigh? Going to carry that hunting? Someone please describe a self-defense scenario requiring 15 rounds in a shotgun. I also love how ejected cases hit you in the chest- I guess in a middle of the night home defense those hot shells hitting bare skin will definitely help wake you up! Not to mention moving the muzzle closer to my ears sounds like an extra bonus!

To me, the only rational use for this gun is military/LEO, and even there it falls short. You cannot maintain firing position while swithing tubes, and most importantly, the trigger won't reset if you forget to release it while working the slide, see this- http://gunnuts.net/2011/01/20/kel-tec-ksg-shotgun-video/
 
Run a cost/benefit analysis for yourself after you have had time to handle one. If you check one out, take a sock with a couple of pounds of weight in it that you can tie to the middle of the barrel to get a feel for the fully loaded weight.
 
MVF said:
Self-defense and hunting? How much does a fully loaded 15 round shotgun weigh? Going to carry that hunting? Someone please describe a self-defense scenario requiring 15 rounds in a shotgun. I also love how ejected cases hit you in the chest- I guess in a middle of the night home defense those hot shells hitting bare skin will definitely help wake you up! Not to mention moving the muzzle closer to my ears sounds like an extra bonus!

To me, the only rational use for this gun is military/LEO, and even there it falls short. You cannot maintain firing position while swithing tubes, and most importantly, the trigger won't reset if you forget to release it while working the slide, see this- http://gunnuts.net/2011/01/20/kel-tec-ksg-shotgun-video/
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You think it's a bad gun because its capacity might make it heavy when loaded? Do you think it will be too heavy for a man to lift or carry? If the shotgun were only 1/2 the weight, would that make it easier to get your 200# deer back to the truck? I guess you could only load one tube, if it's too heavy for you to carry fully loaded. I looked it up: 6.9 lbs (unloaded), 8.5 lbs (loaded); if you're careful, and polite, you might be able to get a friend to help you carry it. Otherwise, I hear some guys hire people to carry their hunting gear, so all they have to do is take the shot, and then their hired people clean the animal and haul it out for them; with a gun this heavy, you might be able/have to hire one of those guys to carry it for you.

And you're probably right, we're all better off with lower capacity self defense weapons. I don't know why the guys at Kel Tec didn't think of that before they designed this thing. We should write them a letter.
Are you one of those people who moved to California specifically because California is a place where no one needs large capacity weapons for self defense?

And then there's the problem with the ejected brass. Where will it hit you if you fire it naked? I checked youtube, and didn't find a single review seriously examining this question. Is this really a risk we have to put up with just to make a shotgun ambidextrous? I mean, I know that 15 rounds of buckshot into the bad guy, versus 15 brass/plastic shells hitting the good guy is a little bit lopsided, but couldn't they have at least ejected the brass forward too, then those hot shells will wake the other guy up instead!

Yes, it's short. It might even be short enough to maneuver inside of a house. Yes, the muzzle is closer to the shooter's ears, and the shooter's left hand, but that's a compromise that some shooters will hate to have to make in exchange for a shotgun that will fit, fully assembled, in a backpack, and that can be fired with one hand.

Perhaps you can't maintain a firing position when switching tubes, though it would probably still be faster than reloading an empty gun, wouldn't it? I mean, the tube switch takes, what, 2.5 seconds that the support hand is off of the pump, the whole while the weapon is still indexed and aimed downrange.

Oh, and the trigger reset problem, and the slamfire problem, have both been fixed. Those were issues with early model prototypes, and won't be problems with production versions of this weapon.

It could still be a year or two before these are readily available, which is the main complaint people have made so far.
And people are already clamoring for a semi-auto version, though Kel Tec has said nothing about making one.
And some would prefer it magazine fed, for faster reloads.

Overall, it may be you, it may be the gun, that is not rational, I can't tell which.
 
Yes, really good reply! It's not often I find myself on the wrong side of the whole gun capacity argument, and to be fair, I wasn't saying it shouldn't carry 15 rounds. I hate CA laws as much as anyone. Maybe I should have said that I, personally, don't want the added weight or complexity of a second tube and would prefer side eject.

And I guess, since I don't have much contact with organized crime, it's just me that doesn't need 15 rounds for self defense. I tend to hit what I'm shooting at, and trust the 8 rounds in my .45 for home defense (I like music too much to make a shotgun my first choice in the house- although I do have 2 8 rounders in different spots if I need them). I have the pretty much the same strategy for carry- I'd rather carry a back-up gun then a reload.

Do you need 15 rounds for deer because of the short barrel? Maybe you just need to practice more?

It just cracks me up when people get all excited about extra capacity- I'll take extra accuracy and dependability every time. Its hard to get much value out of all those extra rounds if the other guy hits you with his first shot. I just can't think of any scenario I'm ever going to be involved in that 8 rounds won't take care of. Maybe that lack of imagination will get me killed some day, but I seriously doubt it.
 
So, just to get this straight, you carry two firearms in cali with zero reloads for either? And higher capacity in a self defense shotgun is worse rather than better? And furthermore you "pretty much hit what you aim at" (paraphrased) so 8 shots is plenty. It's not your lack of imagination that will get you in trouble, its your questionable common sense.

If you carry, carry a reload, all malfunctions aren't cured with a simple malfunction drill. I actually like your idea of two firearms, WITH reloads for both, don't think it is extremely practical in most cases but applaud you if you can carry it off in a sensible fashion. I guess this was a little bit of .45 vs. more of 9mm argument in disguise perhaps. Sorry that cali limits your choices but when you move out of state, buy the higher cap mags, the little extra weight is cheap insurance.
 
Bulpup designs by nature distribute the weight a lot more evenly than normal configurations. The action is behind the trigger.
 
OK, if I've stepped in it, I might as well keep going- Yes, I prefer a back-up gun to carrying a reload- by your own argument all malfs aren't cleared with a simple drill and I can switch guns as fast as pulling out and loading a reload. How much good are all those extra mags if your gun decides to quit working? And that's not to mention if the first gun got taken or "lost" somehow. Where's my lack of common sense? "Common sense" says that I've never needed a gun at home or anywhere else, much less 2, or reloads, or higher capacity. And where was the talk about common sense when people are talking about this gun for hunting?

Again, what's the scenario where you need all these rounds? Who are you needing to defend against- the A-Team?

As a military or LEO weapon, yeah, this thing rocks, but how many civilians get in extended firefights in their house? Because you're not going to have it with you on the street. And even if you do want to hunt with a short barreled shotgun, (yes I know there are occasions) you don't need 15 round capacity.
 
MVF said:
And even if you do want to hunt with a short barreled shotgun, (yes I know there are occasions) you don't need 15 round capacity.
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This thing is meant for "hunting" people.
 
UGH if its anything like the other hit or miss POS they make i would stay away from it. sometimes you get a gem but most times you have to send the gun back not once but a few times to let them work the kinks out.. not a KT fan at all. spend a little more and get a proven shotty
 
I stated that two guns is better than one. Pretty obvious, obviously (redundancy dept warning). Most scenarios that you can carry two guns reasonably are limited if you aren't leo. So if you carry two it is probably a reasonable choice gun and a pocket gun or something along those lines. If you can wear two full sized caliber, "meaningful" guns, then you are probably big enough that you don't need any guns to protect yourself anyway (sarcasm alert). Internet is very easy to get up in everyone's grill and everybody starts bs'ing and little is accomplished. So, if you are able to step back, consult a training source or whatever you have as a resource, I would politely suggest that if you take the time and effort to carry, you should reconsider the reasonableness of refusing to carry an extra mag. There is ample history of "good" shooters who in the moment missed their first shots, or lots of shots. An extra mag is insurance plain and simple, just like carrying in the first place.
 
I can understand MVF’s philosophy on the BUG as your reload…it’s been around and it’s a viable alternative to carrying extra mags. I’ve done both and they both have their place as long as you train for the reload or transitions.

As to the KSG…well, I definitely don’t see this as a hunting shotgun, but I wouldn’t criticize it based on capacity; to me that’s irrelevant. When firearms have to fall into a “purpose” category, we’ve succumbed to anti-gun strategies. There are several firearms that don’t appeal to me or I don’t have a personal purpose for, but I wouldn’t condemn it for not meeting my purposes or my perceived purposes. I’ve never liked Corvettes and don’t personally see the “civilian” need for “muscle cars”, when the speed limits are rarely over 65mph…only police should need to exceed that right? Well the same can apply the KSG if we use that flawed logic, but I’m not condemning your opinion MVF, you’re allowed that and I respect it; I just think making broad-encompassing statements is heading down the wrong road. Stating that it doesn’t meet your purpose or fit your specific niche is fine, but even Corvettes have a purpose for some and I would never deny them their pursuit of happiness regardless if I don’t see any need for the specific item.

I own a highly modified Saiga 12 gauge…it will never be used to hunt and outside of a zombie attack, not really something I’d have by my bed. However, it does serve a purpose for me…it’s a hell of a fun range gun and it fills that quite well. The purpose doesn’t always have to have to fill a utilitarian, sportsman or “tactical” role.

If the KSG actually gets into actual production and proves reliable, I would like to own one. Again, the purpose could be home-defense, but more likely another range fun gun…that’s my purpose and I shouldn’t have to defend that to anyone. My apologies MVF, I don’t mean to sound divisive or sound like I’m piling on it’s just a sticking point for me and as gun owners, we shouldn’t have to defend the utilitarian purpose of any firearm and they shouldn’t be categorized as just sporting or law-enforcement/military only…that just divides gun-owners and I know all of us can agree that’s not a good thing.

ROCK6
 
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