keltec 12 gauge tactical shotgun. Thoughts?

MVF said:
And even if you do want to hunt with a short barreled shotgun, (yes I know there are occasions) you don't need 15 round capacity.
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I don't know much about shotguns, but an 18.5 inch barrel doesn't strike me as being THAT short.
 
It is short-just little over minimum legal length. It is not a hunting weapon and would be illegal to use as such in most locations.

I would think that it would be pretty heavy and unwieldy. I know that my short shotgun loaded with 8 rounds is pretty heavy. It does have a lot of "cool" factor!
 
it's made to cash in on the zombie outbreak fantasy crowd, which is a huge market right now.
 
I never understood anyone coming into a debate with "well you don't need__________" You know what? Yeah. I need 15 friggin rounds to keep bad people out of my home. I don't like reloading, it's slow and boring and reloading is a good time to die. I like shooting, and if someone came into my house trying to kill me and mine, I want to kill them right back, and I want every advantage in doing that. I want a freaking full-auto, belt-fed, 8-barreled, 25 millimeter auto cannon with explosive shells and laser targeting and a six foot bayonet.

And maybe I do need the Aston Martin, just because I can't go much over 70 anywhere in the country doesn't mean I don't need an Aston Martin. Maybe I value the handling, looks, collectability, and potential speed.

If you ask why for anything but MRE's, tepid water, oxygen, and mud hovels, you can ask why for anything else. "Why do you need a gun?" "Why do you need to smoke/drink/have sex/watch TV/browse the internet/have a nice house/have freedom of speech?" See what I mean? There are very few things the average citizen can't be trusted with, if only he is held accountable for his actions.

Rant over.
 
ROCK6 said:
I can understand MVF’s philosophy on the BUG as your reload…it’s been around and it’s a viable alternative to carrying extra mags. I’ve done both and they both have their place as long as you train for the reload or transitions.

As to the KSG…well, I definitely don’t see this as a hunting shotgun, but I wouldn’t criticize it based on capacity; to me that’s irrelevant. When firearms have to fall into a “purpose” category, we’ve succumbed to anti-gun strategies. There are several firearms that don’t appeal to me or I don’t have a personal purpose for, but I wouldn’t condemn it for not meeting my purposes or my perceived purposes. I’ve never liked Corvettes and don’t personally see the “civilian” need for “muscle cars”, when the speed limits are rarely over 65mph…only police should need to exceed that right? Well the same can apply the KSG if we use that flawed logic, but I’m not condemning your opinion MVF, you’re allowed that and I respect it; I just think making broad-encompassing statements is heading down the wrong road. Stating that it doesn’t meet your purpose or fit your specific niche is fine, but even Corvettes have a purpose for some and I would never deny them their pursuit of happiness regardless if I don’t see any need for the specific item.

I own a highly modified Saiga 12 gauge…it will never be used to hunt and outside of a zombie attack, not really something I’d have by my bed. However, it does serve a purpose for me…it’s a hell of a fun range gun and it fills that quite well. The purpose doesn’t always have to have to fill a utilitarian, sportsman or “tactical” role.

If the KSG actually gets into actual production and proves reliable, I would like to own one. Again, the purpose could be home-defense, but more likely another range fun gun…that’s my purpose and I shouldn’t have to defend that to anyone. My apologies MVF, I don’t mean to sound divisive or sound like I’m piling on it’s just a sticking point for me and as gun owners, we shouldn’t have to defend the utilitarian purpose of any firearm and they shouldn’t be categorized as just sporting or law-enforcement/military only…that just divides gun-owners and I know all of us can agree that’s not a good thing.

ROCK6
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Thank you ROCK6- no need to apologize, this was the perfect reply! You made me go back and read my initial post and I guess it did sound different then what I meant. If people were saying "this looks like a fun gun for the range" or "what a neat trick" or whatever I probably would have been agreeing with them. I kind of lost it when people were praising it as a the latest & greatest for self-defense and hunting. (I think they pushed my "mall ninja" button) I never said they shouldn't build it or people shouldn't have one, I just questioned its real world usefulness- especially after reading about the trigger issue (and knowing Kel-Tec's rep in general).

I agree with you, it would be a blast to play with. I was really trying to argue that (IMO) a civilian isn't likely to need that much firepower and so would be better served by a lighter, simpler gun. I can see that I wasn't clear about that. I like looking for the "optimum solution" and to me, this gun isn't it for self-defense and certainly not for hunting. I am a firm believer in "to each his own" I was just trying to debate the merits. I definitely like your point about not falling into the "it needs a purpose" trap. Also, I didn't mean to say that only military or LEO should get to have one, just that they would definitely have the need for one.

Anyway, thanks for such a well written post and helping me see why I was pi$$ing everybody off!
 
That's the beauty of a capitalist economy. I can buy whatever I want provided I have the monetary means, regardless if it's practical or impractical. The buyer should not have to defend himself for making a purchase. The notion of "just because I wanted it" comes to mind.

The irony is that we're on a knife forum. Let's face it, how many people reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally need a knife? On that same token, how many people need the KSG? Probably not very many, but it's still damn cool.

And I want it.
 
MVF said:
I definitely like your point about not falling into the "it needs a purpose" trap. Also, I didn't mean to say that only military or LEO should get to have one, just that they would definitely have the need for one.

Anyway, thanks for such a well written post and helping me see why I was pi$$ing everybody off!
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No problems...I can see where you were coming from even if it didn't come off that way. I personally like the design and features of the KSG, but before people jump on the bandwagon, it will have a long road to proving itself for the LEO/Mil or hard-core home defender crowds. As a gun owner, enthusiast and supporter of the 2nd Amendment, even if I didn't care for the design, I truly hope it's a success...a lot of people don't care for Kel-Tec, but it's nice to see some updated and out-of-the box designs brought to the gun market.

A good friend was deployed and his wife bought a Hi-Point 9mm pistol for protection. My wife and I took her to shoot it and it felt like holding onto a brick...however, it was reliable and accurate enough for defense. I personally would never own one, but I see the purpose those on a tight budget. Fortunately, after his redeployment, his wife "allowed" him to pick up a new pistol (it was an XD model).

Negative opinions don't mean anti-gun...and opinions don't speak for everyone either.

ROCK6
 
gormandu said:
Is this a serious tactical contender, or is it more of a tacticool toy?
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Think mall ninja @#% dream. I'll take a nice Remington 870 over one of those anyday and situation.

In all seriousness, I want something lighter and maneuverable.
 
LondonBridges said:
it totally gives me the opportunity to avoid having to get a trust to get my SBS... :)
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USSS Remington 870 all the way. Do you really want to maneuver that heavy thing around your house or in and out of the trunk of a car? I don't even want a full length mag tube on my pumps, much less the weight of 9 extra rounds of Buckshot.
 
MFV - I think the problem is you're trying to say "what's this thing good for?", and people are hearing "why do you need this thing?" (anyone that quotes stuff with his actual phrasing will get shot with "both barrels" of a SPAS-12, just like in the video games :p) They're close, but not identical things to ask.

What's it good for? Being awesome. Being cool. Being scary to dumb and/or sheltered people. Having only one tube loaded so that it balances all lopsided. :p

Why do you need it? A question that no one is ever justified to ask.

Oh, and personally, I'm a Mossberg man, especially for LE and military, especially compared to the 870 for those. The slide release, "open" elevator, larger ejection port, different feed design, etc., all work together to make it much easier to switch between ammo types. You can actually reach the release without breaking your grip, you can push a loaded round out of the receiver by sticking your fingers through the elevator instead of turning the gun to the right and shaking, and you can pop a round out of the magazine much more quickly.
 
In some parts of the U.S., you would need to plug the magazine to legal to hunt with it. Too many rounds to be legal in my area. And like it or not, if a game warden saw you with a Keltec tactical shotgun, you will be checked.
 
mollyhatchet said:
In some parts of the U.S., you would need to plug the magazine to legal to hunt with it. Too many rounds to be legal in my area. And like it or not, if a game warden saw you with a Keltec tactical shotgun, you will be checked.
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Just out of curiosity, I wonder if you could keep two rounds in each tube and be legal...they are separate tubes and only one feeds at a time??? I know I wouldn't use it for hunting, but for deer, you could carry both slugs and buckshot (still need the plugs to limit both tubes). I just wonder how the game laws for each state read as I would suspect it could be feasible...

ROCK6
 
My Gosh, where do you live? Afganistan? :D I just don't see the value. If it was me I'd just get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg in a 12 or 20 gauge. But of course I'm not you. If you do decide to pick one of those things up good luck and be careful.
 
I think they're pretty cool looking. Probably be lots of fun. And what the hell while you may not need that kind of fire power for home defense it can't hurt. Haha
 
I'm guessing that most of the SWAT teams across the country already have their orders in. The concept is brilliant, let's hope the execution is too. The weight of the gun fully loaded is not at all unreasonable. It is not a sporting arm, it is a combat arm. I'd want one if I lived close to either side of our southern border. Alas, though I love the design, I have no need real or imagined.
 
There was another thread on this "thing" awhile ago. There was a similar shotgun made in South Africa several years ago, but BATF would not allow it to be imported.

Why the hell would SWAT teams want this thing? TV shows?
 
xbxb said:
My Gosh, where do you live? Afganistan? :D I just don't see the value. If it was me I'd just get a Remington 870 or a Mossberg in a 12 or 20 gauge. But of course I'm not you. If you do decide to pick one of those things up good luck and be careful.
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No, but I spend a lot of time here. As I posted early on in this thread, I'm looking forward to getting one when it becomes available. You make a good point, xbxb that a lot of posters in the thread seem to miss, and that is: "But of course I'm not you". Thank God we live in a country where we can buy what we want (within the law of course). I do not see a down side to having more rounds than bad guys in a home defense scenario.
 
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