Ken Schwartz's new poly spray (.015 micron)

Oh just wait. Sadden will buy some if he hasn't already. He can show us what an edge looks like after performs his magic. Hello Sadden you out there. LOL
 
rutcrazed said:
Oh just wait. Sadden will buy some if he hasn't already. He can show us what an edge looks like after performs his magic. Hello Sadden you out there. LOL
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Jeez, sadden probably has a couple bottle of this stuff.:D
 
I presume the next step after using this is to strop on pure silk followed by using the rays of the sun to put that final edge on it?
 
skippy75 said:
I presume the next step after using this is to strop on pure silk followed by using the rays of the sun to put that final edge on it?
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Then final finishing is to wish a sharper edge. The only thing finer than sunlight is the hopes of a child. Everybody knows that.
 
How does one QC particles that small without a SEM? 2/10 micron is about the smallest one can determine anything using oil immersion microscopy. Anything from .5u down (depending on what surface its worked against) would be pretty much impossible to visually detect a change even at 1000x. Hmmm

As to what could possibly make it finer? Sharpen the tool in question under a pyramid of course!

Edit to add: this is one of the most profound statements I've seen on the forum - just beautiful...

Then final finishing is to wish a sharper edge. The only thing finer than sunlight is the hopes of a child. Everybody knows that.
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HeavyHanded said:
How does one QC particles that small without a SEM? 2/10 micron is about the smallest one can determine anything using oil immersion microscopy. Anything from .5u down (depending on what surface its worked against) would be pretty much impossible to visually detect a change even at 1000x. Hmmm

As to what could possibly make it finer? Sharpen the tool in question under a pyramid of course!

Edit to add: this is one of the most profound statements I've seen on the forum - just beautiful...
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I meant it as a joke. I don't want it getting all serious up in here. We are talking about a spray that is $350 for two measly ounces!
 
dkb45 said:
I meant it as a joke. I don't want it getting all serious up in here. We are talking about a spray that is $350 for two measly ounces!
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That's how I took it - had a real good laugh, but having small children around I felt it was a great line on a couple of levels.
 
I thought it was funny as heck too! :) I had a mental picture of myself sitting under a pyramid in the sun, meditating my edge sharper.

Seriously though, it begs the question: wouldn't your strop alone be more coarse than this sharpening compound? I mean there has to be a certain micron rating to kangaroo hide, or horse hide. Could you even measure the performance of .015 ?? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around fifteen thousandths of a micron. I consider myself pretty OCD about my edges and angles....but really?

I'm sure there are folks that know more than me. What say ye?
 
It's probably suggested that you buy his nano cloth to go with the spray. But you bring up a good point about contamination. Breath on your sharpener wrong at that point would contaminate it. Bacteria is bigger.
 
New idea, bacteria stropping!

I didn't even register the size though. This is a compound made for "just cuz" reasons. I don't think a medium exists that is as fine or finer than the compound, so it will be wasted being applied to anything. Unless you figured out antigravity and van use it in a hermetically sealed chamber in a vacuum then you are wasting your time. Now that sharpening via meditation or child hopes isn't as ridiculous.
 
A high enough alloy steel like rex-121 wood be the only thing that makes sense. Make it as hard a possible so the diamond grit is the only thing that will abrade the knife. Or ceramic knives.
 
HeavyHanded said:
How does one QC particles that small without a SEM? 2/10 micron is about the smallest one can determine anything using oil immersion microscopy. Anything from .5u down (depending on what surface its worked against) would be pretty much impossible to visually detect a change even at 1000x. Hmmm
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Laser diffraction. As long as you have the right dispersant you can easily check sizes down to the nanometer range. Takes all of 10 minutes too.

Haha I highly doubt this was made to sharpen knives. It was probably manufactured for industrial/scientific purposes and this guy just decided to sell it as strop compound. As to how to apply it, a soft felt cloth is perfectly fine and is what we use in the lab.
 
It's all coming together in one giant revelation :)

Pyramid power!

nano427017f1_online.jpg






So here we have Indium Gallium Nitride crystals photographed using an SEM. They are not just regular pyramids, but pyramids with a hexagonal base. While these are comparatively large compared to the 0.015 micron polycrystalline diamond compound - the topic of the thread - they are actually used for ultra efficient collection of solar energy, specifically high energy photons. This is still very cutting edge research, so it may even take a generation for this to come to full fruition so it may be in the hopes of a child today who may be a scientist tomorrow :)

So what does this all mean? Pyramid power being used to harness the power of the sun by future generation's hopes and dreams? Is this a sign from above? Have we discovered the true meaning of reality?

Nah! It really has nothing at all to do with anything at all relevant to the current discussion, but it did make for a fun diversion :)

Actually I got this more for R&D purposes and because a particular customer wanted to try it out. I really don't expect to sell this to customers and might have to restrict sales to those sufficiently skilled to use it or charge unskilled individuals double to limit something this powerful getting into some peoples' hands. (kidding if you can't tell, however it would take a very skilled sharpener to actually take advantage of this product).

Of course you would have to put it on a substrate finer than Russian or even Ukranian Leather where it would be a waste of product, so nanocloth would be the most appropriate substrate - or possibly Kangaroo.

And yes the particle size is smaller than most viruses and certainly smaller than bacteria, but the chief difference is that these are abrasive particles, whereas most bacteria, while they might rub you the wrong way by making you sick are not abrasive unless they perhaps have a cytoskeleton :) like radiolarians (a protozoan, not a bacteria) which are often one of the components of some Japanese natural stones.

---
Ken
 
I have heard that kens sprays are very good, I want to get the.1 micron spray. Just waiting for the funds.
 
HeavyHanded said:
How does one QC particles that small without a SEM? 2/10 micron is about the smallest one can determine anything using oil immersion microscopy. Anything from .5u down (depending on what surface its worked against) would be pretty much impossible to visually detect a change even at 1000x. Hmmm
Who says its not being QCed using an SEM..... Its not like hes making this stuff in his kitchen sink...

You can read more about Kens Quality Control here
http://precisesharpening.blogspot.ca/2010/12/part-1-comparison-of-three-quarter.html

Here
http://www.precisesharpening.blogspot.ca/2011/01/part-2a-comparison-of-three-quarter.html

And here
http://www.precisesharpening.blogspot.ca/2011/01/cbn-cubic-boron-nitride-scanning.html

Informative reading about all things regarding any stropping compounds. Since the posts there Ken has added CBN from 80u - 0.1u , MonoCrystalline Diamond 4u - 0.025u , Polycrystalline Diamond 4u - 0.015u , Boron Carbide 8u - 0.5u and Aluminum Oxide 1u, 0.3u and 0.05u to his lineup. All with the same stringent quality control.

Now I have had my bottle for a couple months now and to be honest , I have been too busy to use it. Its up there on my todo list (although I did supercharge a Nakayama Iromono with it once , that was really cool). But to be honest stuff is not for amateurs , its exceedingly expensive just to produce , $xxx/oz at Kens standardized concentration , and to even use it you need 0.025 , 0.050 , 0.1 and 0.25u abrasives , provided you have shaptons all the way to 30k. It takes an extremely long time to even get an edge fine enough for this stuff to be effective.

So why did I buy it / persuade Ken to bring it in for me? Well , theres still a perceptible difference going from 0.050 to 0.025u when shaving ones face , so theres no reason things shouldn't get even smoother by going one step finer yet. I also wanted it because no one else has a bottle (except for Ken) , and for the cost I wouldn't be surprised if it stayed that way. Eventually I would like to do a knife up and send it off for some CATRA testing but I just haven't got that far yet.

So how fine is this stuff? Well the worlds smallest organism is the Porcine Circovirus that measures a mere 17NM , this stuff is 15NM , or 2NM smaller than the smallest Virus known to mankind.


Handwritten Label haha! Its what inside that counts!
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