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- Jan 18, 2003
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Is it me or does the Scallion have a thicker blade?
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Kershaw/Ken Onion LEEK (pics)
- Thread starter UnknownVT
- Start date
The Scallion is made from a thicker blade stock - so the heel of the knife is noticably thicker.
However the business/ground part of the knife has been thinned down so that whether it is actually materially thicker than the Leek is hard to discern - hence I guess why you posed it as a question.
I think they used a thinner stock for the Leek just to keep the blade lighter for better/faster/easier Speed-Safe action.
For my at home EDC usage I like the thinner blade of the Leek as it cuts through things better - and that is despite what I describe as the "almost UNforgivable" thickening toward the edge hollow-grind.
If anything I am finding that this one sample of hollow-grind on the Leek has advantages cutting through things like Cheddar cheese as the material doesn't seem to want to stick to the blade face......
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2002
- Messages
- 402
Thanks for the advice, I tried to tighten mine a bit with a torx, if I turned it even a hair, it wouldn't fire. It made me kind of angry, sice I ordered it up from a BF advertising dealer. Not New Graham, and it arrived with the big shiny spot. It wouldn't be there unless the knife was fired enough to remove the finish. So, someone fired it a few times, had to see the mark and satill sent it out to me. I mean, your eyes are drawn to the scuff first thing. I just am a little depressed I have to wait more. Oh well, at least it should be back soon. Today makes one week since it was signed for at Kershaw.
finally saw a shiney flat on the blade near the belly -
the blade did not feel any less sharp - but being an obsessive/complusive "Knife Knut" I look at my using blades all the time.
To bring the edge back all I did was to strop the thing - I have a cheapo leather strop - the regular hanging leather strip type (I think it was from Tandy Leather) - the rough side had been loaded with jewellers' rouge. About 1/2 dozen strokes on each side of the strop just made the flat spot disappear - and the edge was restored.
This was so easy that I almost feel silly reporting this - but I think it's significant that having owned this knife for just over a month of daily carry and use (and I'll admit I'm not a very hard user - but I think I do most things that most people use a handy knife for....) the only thing I had to do for sharpening was to strop the blade.
and the steel is a mere humble 440A.......
the blade did not feel any less sharp - but being an obsessive/complusive "Knife Knut" I look at my using blades all the time.
To bring the edge back all I did was to strop the thing - I have a cheapo leather strop - the regular hanging leather strip type (I think it was from Tandy Leather) - the rough side had been loaded with jewellers' rouge. About 1/2 dozen strokes on each side of the strop just made the flat spot disappear - and the edge was restored.
This was so easy that I almost feel silly reporting this - but I think it's significant that having owned this knife for just over a month of daily carry and use (and I'll admit I'm not a very hard user - but I think I do most things that most people use a handy knife for....) the only thing I had to do for sharpening was to strop the blade.
and the steel is a mere humble 440A.......
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2002
- Messages
- 175
I have mail-ordered three KO knives (2 Leeks and 1 Scallion), and all arrived from the dealer boxed and in individual sealed bags. The adhesive stickers on each bag were tenacious enough that I had to rip them to get the bags open. I mention this because your Leek should also have arrived in a sealed bag - with no signs of being opened. If not, perhaps this was a knife previously returned to the dealer for the very reason you have described.
Possible??
TT2Toes
Possible??
TT2Toes
this LEEK is my at home only EDC - here's some reasoning -
Away from home I need more tools since they aren't often available to me away from base - so I EDC a SAK away from home.
But at home I can easily access various tools so carrying the SAK on my person is not really necessary.
To EDC a knife at home when all my knives and other tools are relatively easy to hand - means to access and use that EDC knife has to be more convenient than using one of my many knives on tables in drawers etc.
I know this sounds silly or lazy - but how many of us open envelopes by ripping or sliding in a finger to use like a (blunt) letter opener - instead of reaching for a knife? Why? because reaching for the knife wasn't quite as convenient as those other methods..... perhaps also when walking from the letter box you might not have a knife on you (they are all in the house.....)
So the at home EDC has to be as convenient as using one's fingers (which hopefully are attached to us at all times
)
The Leek clipped to my pocket being indexed Speed-Safe assisted opening is just that. Being right-sized for me, it is easily accessible from its clip and very convenient and fast opening makes me choose this over just using my hands/fingers for letter opening.
Sometimes even in the kitchen where my kitchen knives are but a short stretch away I still deliberately choose to use the Leek - for cutting Cheddar cheese because it manages to cut without the cheese sticking to the blade face.
So for this kind of constant but light duty usage the 440A steel seems more than capable other than the light stropping to get rid of a shiney flat just over a week ago - I have not had to touch up the blade in any way.......
Away from home I need more tools since they aren't often available to me away from base - so I EDC a SAK away from home.
But at home I can easily access various tools so carrying the SAK on my person is not really necessary.
To EDC a knife at home when all my knives and other tools are relatively easy to hand - means to access and use that EDC knife has to be more convenient than using one of my many knives on tables in drawers etc.
I know this sounds silly or lazy - but how many of us open envelopes by ripping or sliding in a finger to use like a (blunt) letter opener - instead of reaching for a knife? Why? because reaching for the knife wasn't quite as convenient as those other methods..... perhaps also when walking from the letter box you might not have a knife on you (they are all in the house.....)
So the at home EDC has to be as convenient as using one's fingers (which hopefully are attached to us at all times
)The Leek clipped to my pocket being indexed Speed-Safe assisted opening is just that. Being right-sized for me, it is easily accessible from its clip and very convenient and fast opening makes me choose this over just using my hands/fingers for letter opening.
Sometimes even in the kitchen where my kitchen knives are but a short stretch away I still deliberately choose to use the Leek - for cutting Cheddar cheese because it manages to cut without the cheese sticking to the blade face.
So for this kind of constant but light duty usage the 440A steel seems more than capable other than the light stropping to get rid of a shiney flat just over a week ago - I have not had to touch up the blade in any way.......
I just ordered mine off an ebay seller. I hadn't considered the Leek until I asked some folks on rec.knives for suggestions. I had some money I'd saved in my account at the "Moonshine Jug S&L" that was burning a hole in my pocket. I asked for some help and the Leek came up early. I read other posts and found the Leek to be very popular. Your review just adds to my excitement and I look forward to many hours of cutting the cheese! One more thing. I have a friend who works here in Texas as a LEO and he informs we that we have some of the most liberal knife laws in the country. I should be able to have my Leek as my EDC without any problems as long as I declare it, if I should ever be stopped. Thanks UnknownVT!
Many thanks for your kind words.
We've been told that knife laws can vary by location/municipality - and often LEOs can have different views depending on the circumstances.
So it's probably worth chcecking up on the knife laws for your town/municipality (or where you intend to travel) to be sure.
Personally, as mentioned, I only EDC the Leek at home - even though I am still very enthusiastic about the knife,
and I do know the Leek falls outside of the Federal definition of a switchblade -
it simply looks and acts like a "switchblade" to most people -
and I would rather avoid any possible hassles -
but as always YMMV.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Messages
- 526
Just to get a Canadian perspective on this... I have been carrying a Ken Onion Leek with me as my EDC for a couple of months now, ever since they came out. I'm not aware of anybody selling them in Canada (there aren't really any good knife shops anywhere near me), but as far as I know, they're perfectly legal.
Basically this allows for a spring assisted opening if you are required to touch the blade to open it, and not the handle. This is excactly what speedsafe is.
All in all, I really like the Leek. I'm not crazy about the blade shape.. but I aggree, the hollow grind is very nice...and works better than I expected - It doesn't stick to my cheese either
. I do have the problem about the blade contacting the scale... but mine's a plain version.. no coating to rub off, so i'm not too concerned. It developed this after a couple months use. Perhaps the tightening and loctite suggestion will work.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2003
- Messages
- 81
I just received my shiny Rainbow Leek from the nice UPS man a little bit ago. UPS guy was hanging around the office chatting up a co-worker as I proceeded to whip out my BM 721 to cut into the box -- that caused an eyebrow raise -- he says "you seem awfully excited, what'd you get?" My reply -- "MORE KNIVES!!"
I really like the Rainbow Leek. My co-workers think it is just gorgeous. I pretty much agree with everything UnknownVT said in his original review.
My comments:
I don't like using the thumbstud at all. It seems I have two choices:
1. sheepishly pushing the stud, usually resulting in a "thunk," sometimes not even fully getting the blade out.
2. giving it a good solid push and cutting my thumb
Maybe it needs loosened up or I need more practice, but the thumbstud so far I have not been happy with. I was actually planning to remove them, until I remembered that they also act as a stop. So they are staying. I LOVE the index open -- just bang on it with your finger for a pleasing "snap" and a deployed blade
Also, it came positioned for tip down carry -- I think the blade is just begging for tip-up, esp with the index opening. So once I get home I will switch it to tip up.
I'm going to EDC this baby for a few days and see what else I think!
I really like the Rainbow Leek. My co-workers think it is just gorgeous. I pretty much agree with everything UnknownVT said in his original review.
My comments:
I don't like using the thumbstud at all. It seems I have two choices:
1. sheepishly pushing the stud, usually resulting in a "thunk," sometimes not even fully getting the blade out.
2. giving it a good solid push and cutting my thumb
Maybe it needs loosened up or I need more practice, but the thumbstud so far I have not been happy with. I was actually planning to remove them, until I remembered that they also act as a stop
. So they are staying. I LOVE the index open -- just bang on it with your finger for a pleasing "snap" and a deployed blade Also, it came positioned for tip down carry -- I think the blade is just begging for tip-up, esp with the index opening. So once I get home I will switch it to tip up.
I'm going to EDC this baby for a few days and see what else I think!
Originally posted by fiver
I don't like using the thumbstud at all.
<snip>
Maybe it needs loosened up or I need more practice, but the thumbstud so far I have not been happy with. I was actually planning to remove them, until I remembered that they also act as a stop
Yes, because the Index-Open is so effective those thumb studs become almost superfluous - except the fact they are actually the stop pin for the knife
Despite that, the thumb stud can be used to open the knife quite easily - once learnt.
The main problem most people have with the Speed-Safe assisted opening knives' thumb studs - is the assumption they work the same way as on a conventional manual liner-lock.
Almost but not quite.
On a conventional manual liner-lock one uses the thumb stud to rotate the blade out on its pivot and follow through continuing to push until the blade lock up. Sounds simple.
But if one did that on a Speed-Safe knife:
(1) the initial activation angle may not be correct which will make the knife feel very hard to open - or not at all.
(2) the correct follow through on a liner-lock pushes the thumb straight onto the blade's edge - resulting in a cut thumb (ouch!)
With a Speed-Safe knife on ehas to experiment to find the correct angle to push the blade out from the handle - I found even with the sallower thumb studs on the Leek this is about 45 deg to the handle - I use the fleshy edge of my thumb by the outer corner and by and below the nail - which seems to give me good purchase and control.
The push is very slightly downward for good grip but mostly out similar to rotating the blade out from the handle (sounds similar to a liner-lock - BUT NOT quite the same).
As I see/feel the blade moving out from the handle - and when the blade reaches about 30 deg the torsion spring will take over - stop pushing and lift the tumb out of the way. So the motion is a liitle down but mostly outward and lift - like a slow motion flick of the thumb.
One really has to experiment to get the correct angle - and with practice the thumb stud motion is controlled enough that one can actually see when the blade is about to fly out - so one can lift the thumb out of the way - and obviously eventually this becomes learned second nature - and is easy.
Assume it is the same action as a manual liner-lock, then it is not easy, and one is likely to cut one's thumb.
:barf:I've thought and experimented a bit more about using the thumb-studs on a Speed-Safe assisted opening mechanism.
On all 6 of the Speed-Safe knives I have, the optimum angle seems to be:
Draw a line from the pivot point to the thumb-stud -
push at right-angles (90deg) to that line.
Once you see/feel the blade start to move and leave the handle -
lift the thumb out of the way.
So the motion is somewhat like flicking - an initial slight downward pressure to get purchase/grip on the stud, then when the blade moves - up and out of the way.
Do NOT follow-through as on a conventional manual liner-lock - that merely pushes the thumb onto the blade edge.......
If the angle is right, then there's fairly little initial resistance -
if the angle is off then there will be times when it feels almost impossible to open the thing.
So the initial push is very similar to a the optmium initial angle for a conventional manual liner-lock - ie: one is trying to rotate the blade out from the handle - except on a Speed-Safe knife the angle is much less forgiving.
But once the blade starts moving - on a Speed-Safe knife one had better get the thumb out of the way!
I use the fleshy outer corner of my thumb next to and just below the corner of the thumb-nail - this seems to give me good control I can open the blade in slow motion fraction-inching the blade until it's ready to spring out. Others use the thumb-nail itself - which might save wear on the thumb - but I find it doesn't offer the degree of control I'd like, and once the correct/optimal angle is learnt opening is "easy" and there is low wear on the thumb anyway
- but as always YMMV.
However on the Kershaw/Ken Onion Speed-Safe assisted opening knives with the Index-Open (like the Leek, Chive, Scallion, and Boa) the thumb-studs are really secondary - since the Index-Open is so much easier.
However do not remove the thumb-studs, even if you never intend to use them for opening the knife - on the Index-Open knives the thumb-studs are actually the blade stop-pin against the handle. (see review for details, above)
On all 6 of the Speed-Safe knives I have, the optimum angle seems to be:
Draw a line from the pivot point to the thumb-stud -
push at right-angles (90deg) to that line.
Once you see/feel the blade start to move and leave the handle -
lift the thumb out of the way.
So the motion is somewhat like flicking - an initial slight downward pressure to get purchase/grip on the stud, then when the blade moves - up and out of the way.
Do NOT follow-through as on a conventional manual liner-lock - that merely pushes the thumb onto the blade edge.......
If the angle is right, then there's fairly little initial resistance -
if the angle is off then there will be times when it feels almost impossible to open the thing.
So the initial push is very similar to a the optmium initial angle for a conventional manual liner-lock - ie: one is trying to rotate the blade out from the handle - except on a Speed-Safe knife the angle is much less forgiving.
But once the blade starts moving - on a Speed-Safe knife one had better get the thumb out of the way!
I use the fleshy outer corner of my thumb next to and just below the corner of the thumb-nail - this seems to give me good control I can open the blade in slow motion fraction-inching the blade until it's ready to spring out. Others use the thumb-nail itself - which might save wear on the thumb - but I find it doesn't offer the degree of control I'd like, and once the correct/optimal angle is learnt opening is "easy" and there is low wear on the thumb anyway
- but as always YMMV.
However on the Kershaw/Ken Onion Speed-Safe assisted opening knives with the Index-Open (like the Leek, Chive, Scallion, and Boa) the thumb-studs are really secondary - since the Index-Open is so much easier.
However do not remove the thumb-studs, even if you never intend to use them for opening the knife - on the Index-Open knives the thumb-studs are actually the blade stop-pin against the handle. (see review for details, above)
- Joined
- May 13, 2003
- Messages
- 21
That "index-open" mechanism looks suspiciously like the CRKT carson flipper, which I love. But isn't that a fairly clear copyright violation?
Oh, and how far do you have to move the blade to activate the spring, and does the assist kick in gradualy or all at once?
Oh, and how far do you have to move the blade to activate the spring, and does the assist kick in gradualy or all at once?
Don't know the answer to your first question.
On your second - one can experiment with the knife to see how far out the blade will remain static, and roughly at what point it will take-off.
Just open the knife slowly/gradually, and use the other hand to limit the blade's travel.
With my Leek I can open it up to about 20degs or so, and the blade is still stationary - but once the blade is moved beyond that, it will fly open.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 209
For those wondering about the legality of the Leek, it looks like it depends on the looseness of each individual knife. Canada's laws defining prohibited weapons read, in part, "(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife." (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/40651.html)
The tricky part of that is the "centrifugal force" bit. While Speedsafes are perfectly legal in theory, they become illegal by the above definition if the mechanism is loose enough that the blade can be flipped open without using the thumb stud, index open, etc. Even if the knife is not loose enough to open by gravity alone, as long as it can be flipped open while holding the handle and not touching the blade, it's technically an illegal knife by that definition.
From what I understand, Kershaw has been very good about providing information in the case of legal problems, and they certainly have been very helpful when I emailed them with questions, but they still recognize that this is a problematic issue. HOK in Winnipeg, Manitoba won't even carry the Speedsafe knives, either because they mistakenly believe them to be illegal even when the knives can't be opened by centrifugal force, or because they just don't want to deal with potential legal issues.
I carry a Boa as an EDC, and I have no worries about its legality, but if it became loose enough to flip open, then I'd either tighten it or start worrying.
chris
The tricky part of that is the "centrifugal force" bit. While Speedsafes are perfectly legal in theory, they become illegal by the above definition if the mechanism is loose enough that the blade can be flipped open without using the thumb stud, index open, etc. Even if the knife is not loose enough to open by gravity alone, as long as it can be flipped open while holding the handle and not touching the blade, it's technically an illegal knife by that definition.
From what I understand, Kershaw has been very good about providing information in the case of legal problems, and they certainly have been very helpful when I emailed them with questions, but they still recognize that this is a problematic issue. HOK in Winnipeg, Manitoba won't even carry the Speedsafe knives, either because they mistakenly believe them to be illegal even when the knives can't be opened by centrifugal force, or because they just don't want to deal with potential legal issues.
I carry a Boa as an EDC, and I have no worries about its legality, but if it became loose enough to flip open, then I'd either tighten it or start worrying.
chris
Many thanks for that input -
So, by that definition does that mean the majority of liner-locks, frame-locks, Axis locks are illegal?
If anything, as you see from the tests, the Leek is far less likely to be opened by flipping the handle - in fact I am unable to do it at all - so in this single aspect - it appears to be "more legal" than almost any liner-, frame- or Axis-lock........
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 209
Well, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't make specific comments, but the gentleman I spoke to at Kershaw said that, in Canada, it appears to be a 50/50 case of their being interpreted as illegal. I haven't handled many different locks before, but the law is pretty clear in that respect... if you open it via something attached to the handle, it's illegal. If it opens through nothing more than gravity, it's illegal. If it opens by centrifugal force (ie. you can flick it open by holding the handle and not touching the blade), it's illegal.
My Timberline Discovery started off being perfectly legal (wouldn't open by gravity or centrifugal force), but now it opens easily with a flick of the wrist (no need to touch the stud or even the blade), so it's technically illegal under the laws of Canada. My Boa is still nice and tight, so it's legal, but I suspect it'll loosen up with time and require retightening.
Like I said, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if there's an argument to be made for the fact that manufacturers don't intend these knives to open like this, and that it's a natural loosening that happens without user modification, or something along those lines. I'm not going to stop carrying my Boa, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
chris
My Timberline Discovery started off being perfectly legal (wouldn't open by gravity or centrifugal force), but now it opens easily with a flick of the wrist (no need to touch the stud or even the blade), so it's technically illegal under the laws of Canada. My Boa is still nice and tight, so it's legal, but I suspect it'll loosen up with time and require retightening.
Like I said, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure if there's an argument to be made for the fact that manufacturers don't intend these knives to open like this, and that it's a natural loosening that happens without user modification, or something along those lines. I'm not going to stop carrying my Boa, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
chris
Many thanks for your comments -
I am not a lawyer either.
My comments were merely an observation that the Kershaw Ken Onion designed Speed-Safe knives are much less prone to being flipped open than most liner-, frame- or Axis locks.
Although the legality of the Leek, Boa, or any knife, should always be a concern for any responsible citizen -
it seems to me that the Kershaw Speed-Safe assisted opening knives are more likely to be challanged because they are "spring assisted" opening, rather than being able to be flipped if they get worn (or adjusted) too loose -
when there are many. many more other well known lock types are far more easily and prone to being flipped open.
So are Liner-, Frame- or Axis locks actually illegal in Canada?
My first "introduction" to an assisted opener was the new Kershaw Scallion at a sportsmans show shortly after it was introduced. The knife drew quite a bit of attention, and perked my interest enough to purchase one for myself, and another two as gifts.
After thoroughly enjoying the Scallion, it was a normal progression to want an AO in a larger size, which led to the acquisition of a Kershaw Blackout. I have enjoyed both of the knives immensely, but found the Scallion a bit too small, and the Blackout a bit to big.
Then came my new Leek,....IMHO the "perfect" size for unobtrusive carry and enough size to perform everyday tasks with ease. The Leek is one of my favorite EDC knives, and the new model with CPMS30V steel will be acquired as soon as it becomes available!
Treadwell
After thoroughly enjoying the Scallion, it was a normal progression to want an AO in a larger size, which led to the acquisition of a Kershaw Blackout. I have enjoyed both of the knives immensely, but found the Scallion a bit too small, and the Blackout a bit to big.
Then came my new Leek,....IMHO the "perfect" size for unobtrusive carry and enough size to perform everyday tasks with ease. The Leek is one of my favorite EDC knives, and the new model with CPMS30V steel will be acquired as soon as it becomes available!
Treadwell