kershaw - poor steel choice: 8600 model = 4cr14

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dirc

Joined
Jan 31, 2018
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I really like many kershaw models... so I was rather shocked to see they used 4cr14 steel in the 8600.

I thought the lowest price steel they used was either 8cr13, or 1.4116 or 420hc all of which are not bad for budget knives, but 4cr14?? Really kershaw? I mean, you would be lucky to hit 51 hrc on that wouldn't you??

I just had to mention it since it seems very unlike them to use such a poor choice in steel.

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I didn't know kershaw went down to 3cr13 ... they use a worse steel in the 1303 'manifold' - yes rock bottom - 3cr13 (same as the worst quality shrades and sogs)
anyway, my point is simply this: when you're a decent maker, why bother making junk versions? It really detracts from the overall 'brand' in terms of lowering quality expectations from regular (non-knife) consumers...
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dirc said:
I really like many kershaw models... so I was rather shocked to see they used 4cr14 steel in the 8600.

I thought the lowest price steel they used was either 8cr13, or 1.4116 or 420hc all of which are not bad for budget knives, but 4cr14?? Really kershaw? I mean, you would be lucky to hit 51 hrc on that wouldn't you??

I just had to mention it since it seems very unlike them to use such a poor choice in steel.

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Not sure what you expect from a $14 knife geared towards the big box store crowed. Kershaw makes more money off their low end stuff than their high end stuff. We likely wouldn't even have ZT if most of the knife using population didn't buy these Walmart knives.
 
They really seem to be pushing the envelope on the use of worse and worse steels. Pretty soon they're going to start using pure iron.

On a side note, anyone want to take a guess on how long it takes for a KAI rep to show up?
 
Yes, I understand that volume sometimes adds up to more profit than any other factors. It's just that they really missed a great opportunity to make themselves known as a high quality maker.

Instead of choosing the lowest quality 3cr13 and 4cr14, they could have used 1.4116 or 420hc for a few cents more. If those really are more than a few cents... how about 5cr15?
I doubt that volume purchases of 5cr vs 4cr would have any appreciable cost difference on the back end, but would result in knives hitting 56 hrc and not be total junk.

I know this doesn't affect 99% of bf members, but still, it just seems a missed opportunity for an otherwise good company.
 
marrenmiller said:
They really seem to be pushing the envelope on the use of worse and worse steels. Pretty soon they're going to start using pure iron.

On a side note, anyone want to take a guess on how long it takes for a KAI rep to show up?
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No they aren't. They develop different lines of knives for a reason. Different customer bases. Look at what they are doing in ZT. They are going in the opposite direction you are claiming. Moving forward, for newly released knives, ZT will be using 20cv as a minimum. They said so at shot.

dirc said:
Yes, I understand that volume sometimes adds up to more profit than any other factors. It's just that they really missed a great opportunity to make themselves known as a high quality maker.

Instead of choosing the lowest quality 3cr13 and 4cr14, they could have used 1.4116 or 420hc for a few cents more. If those really are more than a few cents... how about 5cr15?
I doubt that volume purchases of 5cr vs 4cr would have any appreciable cost difference on the back end, but would result in knives hitting 56 hrc and not be total junk.

I know this doesn't affect 99% of bf members, but still, it just seems a missed opportunity for an otherwise good company.
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5 cents more? You are looking at this on a micro level. The cost of manufacture of a softer steel will be much lower than of a harder steel. Think about all the grinding on a large production scale. Kershaw knows what they are doing in this respect. They are making a product that people are buying. If you don't want the soft steel don't buy it. They make a plethora of knives in nearly any level of steel you could possibly want.

This really isn't anything to be offended about or a sign that Kershaw is somehow failing us. They have been doing this for years, especially around the holidays in big box stores.
 
Allan Gray said:
They should have a separate brand for these cheap department store knives. Just like ZT is the premium line with it's own identity, the lower end should have a different name as well. Putting Kershaw on these things damages the overall brand.
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10 years ago it wasn't the low end it is now. I remember many Kershaw knives being USA made with reputable designers. I think they found that the low end is where they could maximize profits. And with ZT being their premium line the gap widened even further.
 
craytab said:
Not to all the folks who keep buying them year after year after year.
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I don't think the people who buy the $15 Kershaw at Walmart care about the brand name. They see "knife" and "$15". People who spend $50 - $70 at a knife store probably do care about the brand and having that brand associated with garbage is a bad idea. Spyderco had the good sense to create the Byrd line to cater to the lower end market.
 
In the past, I've given advice to friends and family about getting a decent budget knife - I'd say 'pick up any kershaw' ... (because they never used to use these junk steels)

I can no longer do this, I must now add qualifiers like 'make sure the steel isn't 3cr* or 4cr*
 
dirc said:
In the past, I've given advice to friends and family about getting a decent budget knife - I'd say 'pick up any kershaw' ... (because they never used to use these junk steels)

I can no longer do this, I must now add qualifiers like 'make sure the steel isn't 3cr* or 4cr*
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I'm not sure how old you are but Kershaw and many other brands have been doing this for a long time.
 
Allan Gray said:
I don't think the people who buy the $15 Kershaw at Walmart care about the brand name. They see "knife" and "$15". People who spend $50 - $70 at a knife store probably do care about the brand and having that brand associated with garbage is a bad idea. Spyderco had the good sense to create the Byrd line to cater to the lower end market.
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People who care about the brand know exactly what Kershaw is doing here.

So what if a brand makes cheap knives, so long as they make a knife you think is worth the money.

I don't get why this is so upsetting to some.
 
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