kershaw - poor steel choice: 8600 model = 4cr14

Kershaw has been putting out potmetal knives for big box stores / stocking stuffer combo packs for years. It’s nothing new; it’s just how they get their foot in the door at the lower price points.

A Leek costs about 2x what most people are willing to drop on a knife at Wal-Mart, and that same market is also unlikely to appreciate the difference in blade steel given that they’ll be using pull-through sharpeners and/or have it covered in tape residue for most of its life.

I mean, I was using a 440 Ozark Trail knife for years without knowing any better. I imagine the masses won’t notice or care.
 
craytab said:
People who care about the brand know exactly what Kershaw is doing here.

So what if a brand makes cheap knives, so long as they make a knife you think is worth the money.

I don't get why this is so upsetting to some.
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I think many here want to believe that we are the ones making the money for major knife manufacturers like Kershaw, and we aren't.
 
For as cheap as they are, the metric to me would be A. Are they sharp? and B. Do they open/lock/close? Doesn't seem reasonable to expect too much more at that price point.

I am more surprised that people who are aware of this forum and spend time here think that for those prices they should get something other/more than what they are.
 
Loads of folks who carry will literally never sharpen their knife. Steel quality is unimportant to them, because the knife will spend 90% of its existence dull, and be used to tear through tape or cardboard on occasion. Those folks probably buy 95% of the knives Kershaw makes and a well made, $15 Kershaw in 3cr13 with a solid warranty is probably one of the absolute best knives they could buy.
 
marcinek said:
I think many here want to believe that we are the ones making the money for major knife manufacturers like Kershaw, and we aren't.
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Yup, and I don't think it is particularly close. I think Kershaw will sell way more of their budget stuff than the rest of their stuff combined, including zt and shun.

jceckrosh said:
I am more surprised that people who are aware of this forum and spend time here think that for those prices they should get something other/more than what they are.
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This is true.

That said, if one does care to do some research you can easily find better quality in this price range, even from the same company! Kershaw injection from knifecenter is $15 shipped to your door this weekend. G10 and 8cr. Heck of a deal.

The knife in this thread is not targeted at the buyer who cares to do research.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Loads of folks who carry will literally never sharpen their knife. Steel quality is unimportant to them, because the knife will spend 90% of its existence dull, and be used to tear through tape or cardboard on occasion. Those folks probably buy 95% of the knives Kershaw makes and a well made, $15 Kershaw in 3cr13 with a solid warranty is probably one of the absolute best knives they could buy.
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Good point. The warranty should not be overlooked. A poster above mentioned brand importance. Well, with your 4cr junk knife that cost $15 you still get the very good Kershaw warranty. That is a real tangible value compared to a similarly priced junk gas station knife.
 
Allan Gray said:
I don't think the people who buy the $15 Kershaw at Walmart care about the brand name. They see "knife" and "$15". People who spend $50 - $70 at a knife store probably do care about the brand and having that brand associated with garbage is a bad idea. Spyderco had the good sense to create the Byrd line to cater to the lower end market.
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Are they garbage or just inexpensive knives with materials to match the price point?

In my opinion, the few that ive owned or handled were just fine for the price.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Loads of folks who carry will literally never sharpen their knife. Steel quality is unimportant to them, because the knife will spend 90% of its existence dull, and be used to tear through tape or cardboard on occasion. Those folks probably buy 95% of the knives Kershaw makes and a well made, $15 Kershaw in 3cr13 with a solid warranty is probably one of the absolute best knives they could buy.
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Exactly. They might run it through their pull through sharpener a couple times once in a while and be utterly happy with their purchase.

They are the people who drive the major players...KAI, Vic, Gerber, etc.

Seems like every couple months we get the "Why doesn't Gerber make a titanium framelock using CPM-XP-8675309? We here at BF would buy it!"

Answer: Because they are making gobs of money selling clamshell knives at the big box to people who are really happy cutting stuff with their new Bear Grylls knife.

Its easy to forget that we are just a tiny, tiny group of knife geeks fretting over carbides and "thickness behind the edge."
 
When non-knife people ask me about a cheap knife, I usually tell them to go to Wallyworld, Academy, or some such place, and spend $20-30 on pretty much any knife that suits their fancy(I do recommend Kershaw at that price point, btw). At that price, you usually get a decent beater. And when they ask about the cheaper stuff, I ask them how much they like having all of their fingers? I make it about safety, and how better materials, i.e. a SHARP knife that holds a decent edge and doesn't fall apart in moderate use, is the best insurance policy for their fingers. Most of them get it, though only a few ever use a knife for anything more serious than an over-cooked steak, or maybe a garden hose.

For the VAST majority of knife users out there, as long as it cuts the thing they needed to cut when they bought the knife, it's worth however little they paid. Not everyone has a real appreciation for quality, especially in what what many today consider a disposable tool.
 
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It is a bit frustrating. I used to be able to recommend any Kershaw as a budget knife. With several models now using 3cr13 I no longer feel comfortable doing that.
 
dirc said:
I really like many kershaw models... so I was rather shocked to see they used 4cr14 steel in the 8600.

I thought the lowest price steel they used was either 8cr13, or 1.4116 or 420hc all of which are not bad for budget knives, but 4cr14?? Really kershaw? I mean, you would be lucky to hit 51 hrc on that wouldn't you??

I just had to mention it since it seems very unlike them to use such a poor choice in steel.

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Do you know what the composition of 4cr14 is? I assume you do since you are saying it will not exceed 51 Rc?

My assumption is 0.4% carbon which is almost identical to 420HC. 420HC can go as high as 59 Rc. So why would this steel be only 51?
 
As my neighbor, a retired U.S. Army Colonel and combat veteran of Vietnam, was extolling on the virtues of the $3.00 Ozark Trail liner lock he'd just got finished "sharpening" with a file :confused:, it occurred to me that it is almost impossible for the quality at the low end of the market to go too low.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Loads of folks who carry will literally never sharpen their knife.
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I work with a guy that drives within 2 1/2 miles of the Kershaw factory, on his way home from work, and can't be bothered, to take the time, to take his knife in, for the free sharpening service they offer.

O.B.
 
420HC is not the same as 4cr14 - it has between 0.46-0.5% carbon, it also has a decent amount of vanadium (0.3%) for grain refinement

4cr14 doesn`t exist as a separate spec - it`s likely 4cr13 - which specifies 12-14% chrome... this spec says that carbon can be as low as 0.36% (and there is no vanadium)

Let`s ask @Larrin what levels of HRC can be expected?
 
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