Kershaw Speedsafe illegal in CA ?

I

intangbl

Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
17
I ordered my 2nd Kershaw the other day a Damascus Leek from New Graham, my first Kershaw the ZT 0200 was all it took to convince me that Kershaw makes outstanding knives.

I really was not aware of the whole Speedsafe Assisted Opening controversy but now I have read a few horror stories of people being arrested for carrying these in several states.

Is the Speedsafe AO Leek (or for that matter ANY Speedsafe AO knife) a knife I don't dare get caught carrying in California?

Also for that matter AXIS Lock....on the Benchmade models (I am sorry but this design is a gravity knife plain and simple IMHO)

Really looking for PRACTICAL ( not philosophical ) experience and opinion especially from any California Police officers that might be here.

Thanks for you time,
 
Sorry for asking, but do you mean California or Canada?

I'm sure someone will chime in from either place.

mike
 
I can't offer any first hand facts, but I've heard that Kershaw have in the past sent their legal team to aid customers who have ended up in court over the AO being classed as an automatic. I can only guess that they've been successful, otherwise I'm sure they'd make their customers aware that they may be in danger.

As I see it AO knives are made to get around the letter of the law, and may easily be confused as an automatic by a lot of people/police officers. They may not be illegal, but you may end up in court having to prove that.
 
Here ya' go...

CA Penal Code 653k: Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.

For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.Link To Article

I live in CA, and carry an AO Kershaw every day. The article in the link is gives a good outline of the question you asked. You can also check the CA Strate Website for clarification. Good luck.
 
Elarski said:
"Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
Click to expand...

That part right there I would think would be the most important.

mike
 
Dogmatic said:
I can't offer any first hand facts, but I've heard that Kershaw have in the past sent their legal team to aid customers who have ended up in court over the AO being classed as an automatic. I can only guess that they've been successful, otherwise I'm sure they'd make their customers aware that they may be in danger.

As I see it AO knives are made to get around the letter of the law, and may easily be confused as an automatic by a lot of people/police officers. They may not be illegal, but you may end up in court having to prove that.
Click to expand...

Well, we all see things differently...:grumpy:

Kershaw's A/O system, SpeedSafe, is a design innovation created to provide rapid and safe opening and closure of a knife, not as a means to skirt the law...:thumbup:

You may end up in court having to prove what? That statement doesn't follow from anything you've said...you wouldn't want to prove what you've claimed the mechanism is designed to do, and the law itself doesn't require proof of anything. It just exists as a definition and even halfway clearly defines what is and isn't a swithcblade. Reasonably and tactfully reminding any California LEO of what the statute says while carefully demonstratiing (if permitted to) any Kershaw A/O in question should keep you out of court. ;)

Ray :)
 
Wal-Mart carries some Kershaw AO knives. On their display photo (they do not display the actual knives in a case), next to all their AO knives (Kershaw and other manufacturers) are the words, "Not available in all locations." I suspect this is due to certain municipalities being more stringent than California law.
 
A guy I work with who just bought a Blur (after my talking up Kershaw Knives) was pulled over and the officer opened his knife and laid it across his his palm and said It was legal as long as it did not extend over the edge of his palm. When he opened it his eyes got a little big but he gave it back. This was in Manteca Calif.
 
joe-bob said:
Yeah, that was a blatant lie.
Click to expand...

You mean the cop or the guy I work with?? :confused:

My coworker was giving me an fyi after we discussed weather or not the speed safe was a problem for law enforcement.

I think the cop was using his palm as a measure, ie probably not over 4 inches in blade length. The Blur's blade is 3 3/8 long max.

No problem with the speesdafe on the officers part apparently.

Yes that does sound kinda strange but I think that the police have the option of enforcing knife carry laws on a person by person basis.

My coworker is a student and a regular kind of guy not a hard case.
 
dmonay said:
A guy I work with who just bought a Blur (after my talking up Kershaw Knives) was pulled over and the officer opened his knife and laid it across his his palm and said It was legal as long as it did not extend over the edge of his palm. When he opened it his eyes got a little big but he gave it back. This was in Manteca Calif.
Click to expand...
Lucky that cop didn't have small hands. :D
 
dmonay said:
I think the cop was using his palm as a measure, ie probably not over 4 inches in blade length. The Blur's blade is 3 3/8 long max.
Click to expand...

I am sure that is exactly what the cop was doing.

However, cops are hardly the most reliable source of LAW knowledge. According to the California Penal Code, the 4" restriction only applies to lock-blades and fixed knives at public meetings in public buildings. If your knife is a slipjoint, of you aren't in one of these meetings, the sky is the limit. I know of several Californians who carry the old Camillus CUDA Maxx folders with the 5.5" blade. It fits just right in a 1911 magazine carrier.
171b. (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or
local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the
public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part
1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section
11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the
Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one
year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.
(2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 653k or 12020.
(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the
blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded
position by the use of one or two hands.
Click to expand...
653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.
Click to expand...
12020 is one of those standard boilerplates that identifies what California considers to be a dangerous weapon. It is too long to quote in its entirety, but here is an interesting tidbit:

(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
Click to expand...
This looks like language to prevent you from being charged with carrying a "dirk or dagger" when the knife in question is folded and in a pocket.
 
I carry my bump every day here in Good old sunny southern California, and I have no qualms about its legality, as evidenced by the quotes given above.
 
Thanks for all the opinions, I think that while "Technically" the Speedsafe may not be a "Switchblade" as defined by California law, it may be luck of the draw as to whether you might have to go to court to find out.

I got my Damascus Leek today and it is a fine knife, and my very first Damascus blade of any kind, so I will be carrying it for a while.............and I will be on my best behavior :)
 
I am normally the "legal defense team" Kershaw sends out on many cases including cases in CA. I have been on at least 20 Kershaw AO cases in California. All of the cases I have been on have ended one of two ways. Either the charges are dropped after I file my report with the D.A. or they are found not guilty by a ruling of factual law.

Fact of the matter is they are completely legal, that may not however stop you from being arrested. If you are arrested, you know how to reach me.;)
 
joe-bob said:
Yeah, that was a blatant lie.
Click to expand...

it is definitely wrong, but presumptuous to say it is a lie.


assisted openers are not defined in the penal code. the "thumb stud" verbage may currently exempt ao's. but there is definitely room for interpretation, whether by law enforcement, courts, or people on the internet.
 
Sorry, the law might not define AOs but IT DOES define switchblades. There is no way to read 653k and conclude that an AO is a switchblade. It DOES NOT open automatically. It requires manual action acting on the blade alone to open the knife. The torsion bar only "assists" in the final stage of opening.

Ca LEOs have bad training when it comes to knife laws. That is the very reason I have been asked to construct training classes for Santa Ana PD. Orange County Sherrifs, Fullerton PD, Brea PD and Anahiem PD. After one two hour lecture to the Detective Division at Fullerton PD wrongfull knife arrests dropped 90%.

Add in the locker room lawschool that most officers practice and you get a bunch of LEOs who don't know real law from a breakfast menu.
 
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