Kershaw Steel

[cotdt]

I'll let you take that up with Thomas W, the marketing manager for Kershaw. He's the one who posted the hardness.


Would that be one of your proprietary heat treats the hardness results of which you trumpet without bothering to actually test the blade on a Rockwell tester? Excuse me if I take that with a grain of salt.

It's been rockwell tested at a professional lab. Kershaw actually claims to have 64+ rc 13C26, but nobody including myself has ever been able to reproduce it post-temper.

The great thing about 13C26 is that it can reach high hardnesses w/o being chippy. I have several people testing it, in any case I have no financial stake in the matter so I'm fine with people who have opinions different from mine. I'm in the knifemaking and modifying hobby only out of personal interest. The services I offer is free and many have taken advantage of it, while I get a ton of test data out of it.

 

[knarfeng]

The 64 was to be a sprint run. hardheart was going to buy one.

Did you hardheart?

To get back to the OP's original question, both 13C26 and 14C28N have improved edge retention compared to the original 440A because the Sandvik alloys are run at a higher hardness.

 

[cotdt]

Dozens? I would think that if "dozens" (5 dozen? 10 dozen?) of people have complained, there might have been a thread or two on the subject on the largest knife forum in existence. Yet after extensive searching, I find none.

Your sig line is perfect for you. "Facts are misleading" yet you seem to use them by the dozen.

Your line is perfect for you too, self-proclaimed Mr. Negativity. Search harder. There have been plenty of threads about 13C26 discussing its optimal hardness, with a certain notable poster getting banned for it. If you want to discuss knife science I'll be interested to talk, as long as you keep your sarcasm to yourself.

 

[knarfeng]

Your line is perfect for you too, self-proclaimed Mr. Negativity. Search harder. There have been plenty of threads about 13C26 discussing its optimal hardness, with a certain notable poster getting banned for it. If you want to discuss knife science I'll be interested to talk, as long as you keep your sarcasm to yourself.

That is not true. Cliff Stamp was not banned for arguing with Thomas W, else he'd have been banned several years earlier.

 

[hwpaintballer]

Your line is perfect for you too, self-proclaimed Mr. Negativity. Search harder. There have been plenty of threads about 13C26 discussing its optimal hardness, with a certain notable poster getting banned for it. If you want to discuss knife science I'll be interested to talk, as long as you keep your sarcasm to yourself.

He wasn't referring to the the hardness so much as he was referring to the, proclaimed edge problems, that you have allegedly seen dozens of. I just recently pulled out an old RAM I have, it has 13C26 blade steel, I haven't sharpened it in weeks, maybe a month +, and admittedly it is a little duller than right off of the sharpening stones, as to be expected, but the blade is still sharp enough to shave arm hair.

 

[cotdt]

That is not true. Cliff Stamp was not banned for arguing with Thomas W, else he'd have been banned several years earlier.

Didn't Cliff Stamp get banned in one of those long 13C26 threads? My memory fails me it was a while ago.

ThomasW and Cliff Stamp sure made 13C26 controversial. I get some people trying to test me every time I discuss any 13C26 heat treats. Larrin is extra careful in discussing this steel. At the end all interesting discussion gets stiffled by the kershaw mafia who suddenly come out of the woodworks.

He wasn't referring to the the hardness so much as he was referring to the, proclaimed edge problems, that you have allegedly seen dozens of. I just recently pulled out an old RAM I have, it has 13C26 blade steel, I haven't sharpened it in weeks, maybe a month +, and admittedly it is a little duller than right off of the sharpening stones, as to be expected, but the blade is still sharp enough to shave arm hair.

Yes 13C26 is a great performer. I use a 13C26 razor to shave with everyday because it gets very sharp very easily.

I basically stated that as a heat treater whose services several knifemakers and knife modifiers on this forum use, people come to me with all sorts of issues. People not in my position won't know about them. The poster was just testing my credibility by disputing this fact. Not my problem.

 

[knarfeng]

I forget with whom Cliff was arguing, but he got banned for insulting Spark and dissing BF, not for arguing with his opponent.

 

[zenheretic]

Didn't Cliff Stamp get banned in one of those long 13C26 threads? My memory fails me it was a while ago.
.

You need to search harder.:yawn:

 

[cotdt]

I forget with whom Cliff was arguing, but he got banned for insulting Spark and dissing BF, not for arguing with his opponent.

Yeah, thanks for the correction. The fact that it was in a 13C26 thread does go to show how 13C26 really brings out the emotions in people.

Anyway, I'm out. I just wanted to get some words in before the kershaw mafia takes over, which now they have

 

[cbwx34]

Did the 64 rc Leeks mentioned in the other thread ever come about? If so, which ones were they?

cbw

 

[hardheart]

The 64 was to be a sprint run. hardheart was going to buy one.

Did you hardheart?

No, STR has one. The project was scrapped - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506050

post #32 sums up my confusion

 

[SPXTrader]

Your line is perfect for you too, self-proclaimed Mr. Negativity. Search harder. There have been plenty of threads about 13C26 discussing its optimal hardness, with a certain notable poster getting banned for it. If you want to discuss knife science I'll be interested to talk, as long as you keep your sarcasm to yourself.

You have already been given the accurate facts on why Cliff was banned and you still question them, so I'll leave that one alone. But let me just add that your descriptive tern "notable" has two connotations.

I'd like links please on the plenty of threads concerning 13C and its optimal hardness.

As for my Mr. Negativity #18, that was bestowed on me. It was never self-proclaimed. The search feature is your friend. I'd suggest using it more often. It can prevent facts from being misleading.

 

[Gator97]

I'd like links please on the plenty of threads concerning 13C and its optimal hardness.

What for? I don't think linking those threads here will help the discussion about 13C26 HT in any way.

Besides, that optimal hardness is a point of the argument very often, because what is optimal for mass market i.e. average user, is hardly optimal for smaller group of knife nuts who want the max out of their knives.

It is obvious Kershaw has to aim for the market, to stay in business. And may be once in a while, when we get lucky produce limited editions and special runs for that small group.
I am sure happy when that happens.
However, that absolutely doesn't mean it is wrong for individual users to seek for more.

 

[SPXTrader]

To make sure that the facts aren't misleading.

And to get the thread back on topic. The op asked the difference between 440A and 13C and 14C. Dragging in the discussion of whether someone can successfully re-harden a blade without ruining it and whether it is necessary or not was brought up by cotdt, along with the Cliff Stamp issues. Completely off-topic.

I don't think cotdt knows what he's talking about.

 

[Superdave1]

To make sure that the facts aren't misleading.

And to get the thread back on topic. The op asked the difference between 440A and 13C and 14C. Dragging in the discussion of whether someone can successfully re-harden a blade without ruining it and whether it is necessary or not was brought up by cotdt, along with the Cliff Stamp issues. Completely off-topic.

I don't think cotdt knows what he's talking about.

Man, you guys know how to ruin a thread with petty bickering and childish attacks! You don't have to keep reiterating --take it to PM or something, its like spiteful children trying to get the last word!!

 

[SPXTrader]

OK Superdave1. Now you have the last word.

 

[Gator97]

...And to get the thread back on topic. The op asked the difference between 440A and 13C and 14C. Dragging in the discussion of whether someone can successfully re-harden a blade without ruining it and whether it is necessary or not was brought up by cotdt, along with the Cliff Stamp issues. Completely off-topic.

Let me see, bringing up HT issue when comparing steels.. That is OT? Does any thread about steel comparison goes w/o mentioning HT and how important it is and such?
As for the facts, Cotdt wasn't the one who brought up Cliff Stamp's name, and I was unaware that was a crime on this forum.

 

[SPXTrader]

Let me see, bringing up HT issue when comparing steels.. That is OT? Does any thread about steel comparison goes w/o mentioning HT and how important it is and such?

Discussing the factory Rc of a blade is relevant. Coming out of the woodwork with numbers of personal re-temper Rc numbers is completely OT when viewed in the OP's light. He asked for the difference in Kershaw's 440A, 13C and 14C. Nowhere did he ask for shade-tree HT and Rc numbers, or what someone claims to have obtained.

As for the facts, Cotdt wasn't the one who brought up Cliff Stamp's name, and I was unaware that was a crime on this forum.

See post #23 above. And while not a crime, perhaps it should be, especially when it is completely irrelevant to the OP's question, among other things.

Facts seem to be misleading to more than just cotdt.

 

[Gator97]

Discussing the factory Rc of a blade is relevant. Coming out of the woodwork with numbers of personal re-temper Rc numbers is completely OT when viewed in the OP's light...

HT is a topic, and something that Kershaw does, therefore it is valid to discuss it as well. Especially that there are rehardening options. And Kershaw knives can be rehardened just fine if someone is interested. Worked just about perfect for me.

You sound like church about bing bang theory, it's ok to study physics after big bang, but not ok to try to understand what was before it.

And while not a crime, perhaps it should be, especially when it is completely irrelevant to the OP's question, among other things.

Ouch I think you are taking the whole Mafia thing a little too seriously.

 

[Thomas W]

Sorry for being late to this thread.

Kershaw's 13C26 is really 59-60 rc? I thought I read specs saying that it was softer, it certainly seems to be on the softer side with the rolling issues.

We’ve run 13C26 up and down the Rc ladder. We did run it at 59-60. As to the rolling issues, I’m unsure of what you speak? You must know more than I when it comes to this subject.

Kershaw is the only one using Sandvik 14C28N but it's not really propietary, you can buy it in the tons.

It’s true that we are the only one using 14C, and in our original agreement with the development with this steel, we agreed to make it available to everyone after a period of time. So yes you can buy it in tons, you’re welcome.

Cliff remained huffy and thought they ought to be running it harder. Cliff and Thomas were best enemies and argued often. Finding the actual thread might be hard. I'll see what I can do.

Cliff huffy? I have other adjectives that seem more fitting. We did argue, that happens when one party doesn’t have ears to listen.

Their 13C26 isn't bad at all, but the 14C28N is a big improvement.

We think it’s an improvement as well.

I see, so basically the current ones are significantly harder than what they were listed as before. In the 2006 SHOT show the 13C26 was listed as 57-58 rc. That must be why I've had dozens of people complain to me about its softness and asking me to reharden theirs.

http://www.equipped.org/shot_show_2006_knives.htm
.

Next time you post a link that is an apparent absolute to our specs, please do it with one that doesn’t suck. I stopped reading in short order due to the multitude of inaccuracies and grammatical errors.

Complaints? Dozens? Huh…

Kershaw actually claims to have 64+ rc 13C26, but nobody including myself has ever been able to reproduce it post-temper.

What can I tell you, it happened. Why would I lie?...Wait, Cliff called me a liar…

The great thing about 13C26 is that it can reach high hardnesses w/o being chippy.

Possibly. I wouldn’t want to bet a year’s salary that there wouldn’t be chipping issues on a production level.

ThomasW and Cliff Stamp sure made 13C26 controversial.

I don’t think so. Perhaps it was his back peddling on optimal hardness that was the controversy?

I get some people trying to test me every time I discuss any 13C26 heat treats. Larrin is extra careful in discussing this steel.

Yea, sucks getting tested.

I always found Larrin very open with 13C26, and knew one hellava lot more than Cliff concerning the steel.

At the end all interesting discussion gets stiffled by the kershaw mafia who suddenly come out of the woodworks.

Suddenly, and out of the woodwork…yea, that’s how it happens...You make that sound like a bad thing?

Besides, that optimal hardness is a point of the argument very often, because what is optimal for mass market i.e. average user, is hardly optimal for smaller group of knife nuts who want the max out of their knives.

Agreed. I'm just put off on why darksiders make it sound like max hardness is always “better”