Kershaw Storm II

I much prefer ss handles to titanium ones....titanium just scuffs too easily, though other members say they've made big improvements since the titanium 560C I own...and my 41MC (though rarely carried) seems plenty tough.

I might be under a mistaken impression since I've never owned a titanium framelock, but I thought titanium framelocks were supposed to be actually thicker than the stainless ones.
 
Artfully Martial said:
I might be under a mistaken impression since I've never owned a titanium framelock, but I thought titanium framelocks were supposed to be actually thicker than the stainless ones.
Click to expand...

they are, IIRC, it takes more Ti to equal the strength (I believe Ti is stronger by weight, but it's a hell of a lot lighter), and I don't think too many ppl would be comfortable carrying a steel handled knife as tick as a Ti equivalent.
 
Here's the article I read:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309518&highlight=framelock+failure

biogon said:
I find it funny that people who have never had something happen to them like to criticise a feature that prevents catastrophic failure for someone else.

Call it a pet peeve... but people who have never had a linerlock fail, have never slipped forward onto a blade, or caused overtravel in a framelock are really kind of narrowminded to think it doesn't ever happen and that knives don't "need" features like the LAWKS, the lockstop, or deep front guards.

Yeah, they've all happened to me. Maybe I'm a jinx, but it happens.

I've oversprung a lockbar on a framelock. Not fun. Not easy to do, but when you're not paying attention, it happens.

As for overlays... yes, it works, but 1) it causes the handle to be really bulky (usually a framelock's slab is the same thickness as a liner plus scale), 2) if done improperly, it can cause difficulty in the clip positioning and operation, and 3) if done improperly, it can prevent the framelock's advantage of keeping palm pressure on the lockbar.

You don't need to push the lockbar that far out to make the blade UTTERLY fail to lock up. Titanium has some memory, but the memory is set to the OPPOSITE slab. You just need to move it maybe 3-4mm beyond full unlock (depending on the relief) for it to take a set. Yes, 3-4mm. I've done a lot of testing on different framelocks as I tried to set the tension correctly.

Unlike a thin linerlock where the whole lockbar is under spring tension (and thus will bend), the framelock only arcs around its relief. Which means that the relief point is subject to more arc and torque.

You can wrench a linerlock really far out (1-1.5inches) before it really takes much of a set, but for some reason the framelocks will do so pretty easily.

Once you've given the lock a set, you're totally hosed as to a blade. It doesn't even have a slipjoint's retention.

All you need is for it to happen once and the knife is USELESS until you strip the whole thing and reset the lock, provided you have the tools on you and are skilled enough to do so.

DDR's lockstop plate, Hinderer's lock stabilizer, Marfione's lockstop tab, and my own lockstop overlay all prevent overtravel of the lockbar.

For the record, I believe the clip on the Seb actually functions a little like a lockstop -- you have to overcome the lock tension, which hits the clip, and then you have to overcome the clip tension too. That helps things.

It might be useless for you.

It isn't useless for everyone else. Don't knock what you don't know.

Rant off.

-j
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I just checked my Kershaws (Chive, Random Leek, Boa, Avalanche), all of them are from 85%-100% except Random Leek - 50%.

On Storm 2 I say it is like 95%.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
My buddies Sebbie locks up at 100% not 50%. I assume they all do?

Not that I'm comparing but to me the standard should be 100% no matter what the material.
 
I have a few Storms and have given away several as gifts.

The Storm and Vapor are two of the best value knives made
I've never had a frame lock fail
I've never been cut by the thumb stud
A titanium framelock for $50 or less?!?!?!?
Kershaw is known for their customer service
​
Why didn't you send the knife back? You're comparing a knife that costs under $50 with a sebenza? :confused:

My BS detector light is flashing. :rolleyes:
 
I don't know what the guy did, but he showed me a Sebbie he had cleaned up for a widow, was part of her husband's collection. The lockbar barely touched the blade, maybe 1/32nd.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
I have a few Storms and have given away several as gifts.

The Storm and Vapor are two of the best value knives made
I've never had a frame lock fail
I've never been cut by the thumb stud
A titanium framelock for $50 or less?!?!?!?
Kershaw is known for their customer service
​
Why didn't you send the knife back? You're comparing a knife that costs under $50 with a sebenza? :confused:

My BS detector light is flashing. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


I just said I wasn't comparing, just saying the lockup is 100% on that Seb.

Buck Mayo I checked out was 100%, etc.

Is 50% acceptable by standard? I dont know, but I feel safer with 100%.
 
Again thanks ThomasW for the offer. I'll keep mine as I intended and I hope none takes this personally.
 
GFarrell3 said:
Is 50% acceptable by standard? I dont know, but I feel safer with 100%.
Click to expand...
If you use the knife and the lock doesn't fail, does it matter what the percentage of lock-up was?

What is more important, feelings or performance?
 
I have always thought that 100% contact was not desirable since it leaves no room for tear/wear hence facilitating blade play.........
 
I would tend to think 50% would cause uneven wear/tear.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
If you use the knife and the lock doesn't fail, does it matter what the percentage of lock-up was?

What is more important, feelings or performance?
Click to expand...

If I use it and it does fail then should I have known before hand what a good percentage should have been? Performance=feelings.
 
I general Kershaw has much ticker lockbar then other knives, and this unusual 50% in inches will be more then others 100%. Also with use it better be some room because in time it wear out or bend or loose some other way and this loose-proofe is actually good thing.

Now it is already compliment to Kershaw if Storm is compared to Sebenza which is more then 10 times expensive. If Storm2 competing with Sebenza - it is also good thing.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Framelocks definitely can fail....I don't like them as much as liner locks....they're definitely low on my scale. But people are weird about locks. They visualize the lock bar bending, but I mean, I've put so much force into the couple liner locks I've had and it just isn't going to happen on a decent liner lock or frame lock. Lockup is the key to crosslock stability, not crosslock thickness, as best I can tell. Clearly crosslocks have bowed for others before, but I don't know which knives....definitely not the ones I've used.

Furthermore, what's the problem with lock wear? My M16 has worn through to the other side and...it's still tougher than most my knives' locks...It engages and disengages better than new (really). I was concerned with it getting trapped inbetween the tang and handle, so I figured I'd go ahead and find out if that was going to happen in a worst case scenario by trying to pry it over with a flat head screwdriver. Noting that I didn't go full out with the flathead (because I think that's just ridiculously unlikely), it wouldn't go all the way over. The ball bearing just doesn't give it enough space.

However, an m16 owner repeating my tests had previously lost the ball bearing from the crosslock and he was able to jam it inbetween the tang and the handle. But the result was complete seizing of the blade--not catastrophic lock failure. He had to take his knife apart to fix it, but again, it would not close on his hand.

Okay, to my point, a properly designed liner or frame lock should not experience problems with lock wear. My M16 has absolutely no blade play when new or post lock wear--it has less blade play than my axis locks, compression lock and lockbacks. I have two ball bearing locks on the way as we speak, and we'll see if they can compete with my CRKTs...I'm pretty optimistic about them.

I really quite like framelocks, but like liner locks, I really want to SEE the lockup before I buy them. I think either can be great provided the lockup is solid when you get it--better TOO MUCH than too little lockup.

That said, let's agree to use axis locks, compression locks and maybe (we'll see) ball bearing locks for really hardcore stuff. There's not a good reason to use liner locks or frame locks anymore, post compression lock.
 
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