Kershaw - Zero Tolerance - KAI Customer Service Disappointment

SALTY

SALTY

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So I get a new Kershaw Thermite model 3880; suit and tie office duty like so many of my other knives at various price points.

The lock bar distorts at the point of engagement with the blade and there is wobble. Knife still has factory edge and is cosmetically still perfect but there is blade wobble and poor engagement with the distorted lock bar.

I download KAI's Warranty Form (7/7/15) and ship the knife back to KAI.

Today I get the knife back (six weeks hence) with the same bent lock bar, albeit straightened somewhat, dirty and gritty.

Call KAI CS and get a call back from a very nice gentleman who says that he will email me a pre-paid shipping label for me to send it back a second time (at least on their dime this time around) and he'll see what went wrong.

What went wrong was they simply partially unbent the bent/distorted lock bar and sent it back to me. With a torx, a hammer and a vice or anvel I could have done the same thing - in about ten minutes!

I understand that that the Kershaw Thermite is not the flagship of the KAI product line and that I didn't pay all that much for it; after all, I am in business too, but I can tell you this: I'm so done with that itch I had for a ZT 0450. The price delta between the 0450 and the Sebenza 21 I was half thinking about just evaporated.

I'm not trying to bash Kershaw, after all, I have a bunch of their products but I'm just not feeling the love. Winds blow, fires burn, crops fail and sh*t happens - nothing's perfect but I suspect that maybe I've been spoiled all these years with Buck Knives, Chris & Anne Reeve and Ernie & Mary Emerson.

Here's the pictures of the way I got the knife back from KAI.
 

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Kershaw has become the new "Gerber" in my eyes. Their quality has dropped like a rock in recent years.
 
That is disappointing. You'd think they'd just send you a new knife...got to be cheaper than the labor they paid someone to do that and not very well either. I expect they'll make it right though.
 
Scurvy092 said:
Do you mean lock rock? I can't tell anything from those photos?
Click to expand...

No, I don't mean ordinary run of the mill lock rock - I mean a wobble on two axis.

Look carefully at the lock bar; observe the path of the bar as it approached the blade, the distortion should be obvious. Keep in mind, this is how I got it back after it was "repaired." Look at the vector of the lock bar as it approaches the blade and also look at it's engagement with the blade. The lock bar is bent/distorted; not as badly as when I sent it in, but still an unacceptable deviation with poor engagement.
 
So are you going to send it back again? Not sure something like this would sour me on the entire Kershaw line let alone ZT but to each their own. A $35 Thermite is a long ways from $160 ZT0450.
 
I sent a ZT0452CF to KAI/ZT because the blade was so long it would cut me when the knife was closed. I sent it there at my expense, and they returned it to me having done nothing to it. I was grumpy. So CS chick paid for my next visit, and they fixed the knife to my satisfaction. And gave me 50% off any new ZT.

I suspect that they treat ZT customers more deferentially than Kershaw customers, and CS chick said that ZT knives go to the front of the repair line.

My counsel, I guess, is to stick with it until you are happy, even if it takes multiple trips. And especially if they are paying for those trips. If you are happy after the last repair, you tend to forget about everything that preceded it. Good luck.
 
That's a bummer.
Seeing to how they know they failed to repair it the first time makes it highly likely they'll get it right this time. Sure hope so, and good luck.
 
SALTY said:
No, I don't mean ordinary run of the mill lock rock - I mean a wobble on two axis.

Look carefully at the lock bar; observe the path of the bar as it approached the blade, the distortion should be obvious. Keep in mind, this is how I got it back after it was "repaired." Look at the vector of the lock bar as it approaches the blade and also look at it's engagement with the blade. The lock bar is bent/distorted; not as badly as when I sent it in, but still an unacceptable deviation with poor engagement.
Click to expand...

The problem is pictures are misleading. I honestly cannot see what the problem is. Im not saying one doesnt exist but I certainly cant tell any issue with the pictures provided. Especially since the issue is with the lockbar and you dont have the whole lockbar in view I cant tell if it is actually bent improperly or if its just one of the many optical illusions created by a proper bend in a lockbar.
 
SALTY said:
No, I don't mean ordinary run of the mill lock rock - I mean a wobble on two axis.

Look carefully at the lock bar; observe the path of the bar as it approached the blade, the distortion should be obvious. Keep in mind, this is how I got it back after it was "repaired." Look at the vector of the lock bar as it approaches the blade and also look at it's engagement with the blade. The lock bar is bent/distorted; not as badly as when I sent it in, but still an unacceptable deviation with poor engagement.
Click to expand...

Hey Salty , that is the way the locker looks and was made on all of them, that being said I doubt they would have wasted any time on a china made knife repairing it, they most likely tossed it and send another. Now I have noticed some dirt and grit on knives from china, not sure there is a remedy for that, things from China seem dusty to me. Even though the lock bar is made that way it should still have solid lockup and I have checked several new ones since I read your post and they are all solid. So if the replacement they sent has a solid lockup, it is as it should be. Please don't let a china made knife deter you from buying one of the nicest ZT's ever, the 0450 is a great knife. I will hand pick one for you if you want to try one. I can also send you photos of a few new lockers for you to verify the design.
Dave
 
About 2 years ago, I sent in a Kershaw OSO Sweet bc the blade rubbed the handle liner when closed. I used the warranty service form and in about one week I received a package back from KAI. The knife I received back wasn't mine and looked like it had been dragged thru gravel and stored with saltwater, it was badly scraped up and rusted. Phoned CS directly and told them what happened, they didn't ask for pics or anything, but express mailed me a brand new knife that week. So I guess mistakes are made by them sometimes, but they fully made good by me.

Also, I received a ZT 0450 not too long ago and it is a very good design and very well made by KAI...better than most of the Kershaw line in my experience.
 
KershawGuy.

I also have a BNIB (packaging, actually) as well as a buddy's Thermite and the lock bars do not look like this botched attempt at a repair. The lock bar is bent near the blade; I'm sorry if that's not clear to you in the pics as it is only a cell phone pic.

The lock bar is not made with a hook/bend in it - they are made straight so that the mating surfaces as between the lock bar and the blade contact each other to the maximum extend possible. So, despite the fact that you seem to be unable to notice it in the pics - lock bars are most assuredly not made that way. Your title says dealer. If you are a knife dealer I ask you: have you ever seen a new frame lock knife with a hook/bend in the lock bar?

The dust/dirt is truly ancillary and of no particular moment, but I am perplexed as to how you could think that bent lock bars which detract from full contact with the blade (due to the bend/angle) are "made that way." Seems to me that it would be an unnecessary additional manufacturing step for no reason whatsoever.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that my poor photography did not make the issue clear enough for you rather than the alternative.
 
What really looks bad from those pics is the angle the tang has been cutout at.....

That reminds me of Strider before they got closer to the much more optimal 7 degrees.

It just looks to me like there is lock rock in your future....how long depends on the tension of that lockbar.

Edit:

I see the lockbar issue now...everything is wrong there, but that's just my humble opinion......
 
SALTY said:
KershawGuy.

I also have a BNIB (packaging, actually) as well as a buddy's Thermite and the lock bars do not look like this botched attempt at a repair. The lock bar is bent near the blade; I'm sorry if that's not clear to you in the pics as it is only a cell phone pic.

The lock bar is not made with a hook/bend in it - they are made straight so that the mating surfaces as between the lock bar and the blade contact each other to the maximum extend possible. So, despite the fact that you seem to be unable to notice it in the pics - lock bars are most assuredly not made that way. Your title says dealer. If you are a knife dealer I ask you: have you ever seen a new frame lock knife with a hook/bend in the lock bar?

The dust/dirt is truly ancillary and of no particular moment, but I am perplexed as to how you could think that bent lock bars which detract from full contact with the blade (due to the bend/angle) are "made that way." Seems to me that it would be an unnecessary additional manufacturing step for no reason whatsoever.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that my poor photography did not make the issue clear enough for you rather than the alternative.
Click to expand...
First of all I am just trying to help, if you want to insist that they would take time to attempt to repair a china made knife then that is ok with me , but I would say you are wrong, they don't waste time like that, here are pictures of two I grabbed off the shelf , so yes I have seen the locker bars with a bend. Sorry I even tried to help.


 
That doesnt even look like a bend to me. That looks like a chamfer on the exterior of the lockbar that fades making it look as if there is a bend. IMHO that is an optical illusion. and on the inside is just looks like the the lockbar is ground in a way that amplifies the look of a "bend". I think the most important thing is if the lock up is solid.
 
Dave, thanks for extending a helping hand, don't let it get to you just because someone rudely slapped it away. There are plenty and I mean plenty of people here that appreciate the fact that you are here and share what you know and help the way you have. Your contributions and actions speak for themselves. You can lead a horse to water....

PURPLEDC said:
That doesnt even look like a bend to me. That looks like a chamfer on the exterior of the lockbar that fades making it look as if there is a bend. IMHO that is an optical illusion. and on the inside is just looks like the the lockbar is ground in a way that amplifies the look of a "bend". I think the most important thing is if the lock up is solid.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's a contour that is designed into it. I think some folks just nitpick on stuff once in a while when they run into something that they might not understand. Such is life. I will say that the pictures in the first post don't really demonstrate anything out of the ordinary, we are probably just too dumb or blind to see. Also, omitting anything to highlight the specific area in question wasn't going to help matters either.
 
RevDevil said:
Dave, thanks for extending a helping hand, don't let it get to you just because someone rudely slapped it away. There are plenty and I mean plenty of people here that appreciate the fact that you are here and share what you know and help the way you have. Your contributions and actions speak for themselves. You can lead a horse to water....



I agree, it's a contour that is designed into it. I think some folks just nitpick on stuff once in a while when they run into something that they might not understand. Such is life. I will say that the pictures in the first post don't really demonstrate anything out of the ordinary, we are probably just too dumb or blind to see. Also, omitting anything to highlight the specific area in question wasn't going to help matters either.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I was quite disturbed by the response I got. I really was trying to help and even offered my assistance in picking a knife, oh well.
 
kershawguy said:
First of all I am just trying to help, if you want to insist that they would take time to attempt to repair a china made knife then that is ok with me , but I would say you are wrong, they don't waste time like that, here are pictures of two I grabbed off the shelf , so yes I have seen the locker bars with a bend. Sorry I even tried to help.


Click to expand...

Thanks for the better angle...

It now looks straight, just the upper edge of the bar looks like it's 'bent' but that seems to be the lighting mixed with the Chamfering...

Interesting that the 3 knives have 3 tangs that where cut very differently...
 
Dave,
I apologize if I came back at you too strongly. I was quick on the keyboard as I thought you were coming across as a fanboy for Kershaw and trying to take up their fight for them. I am upset with Kershaw and seeing as you appeared to me as taking up their side, seemingly against me, I figured game-on; you want in - now you're in. I should have waited a while before typing.

You mentioned several times that it's just not worth it to remedy given that it's just a Chinese knife. I get that. Maybe they shouldn't sell them; maybe I shouldn't buy them. Seeing as it just not worth it to them - maybe they should have sent a replacement and made a loyal customer out of me such that I'd buy a few ZTs and post happy posts about their products.

That lock bar on the right in your pictures looks terrible, almost as bad as mine did when I sent it in the first time. When the lock bar distorted, that's when I got lots of wobble (two axis), not just lock rock. You like KAI and you have your reasons. I did too until I got this back (after six weeks) and am not a fan; reasonable people can disagree.

Look, I don't want to argue with you or turn this into a flame throwing badminton. I like this forum, I like knives and I don't go out of my way to take sides in disagreements here. I perceived that you did just that and I responded accordingly. I apologize if I was wrong in either mis-reading your intentions or in my response - or both, as the case may be. Please accept my apology.
 
SALTY said:
Dave,
I apologize if I came back at you too strongly. I was quick on the keyboard as I thought you were coming across as a fanboy for Kershaw and trying to take up their fight for them. I am upset with Kershaw and seeing as you appeared to me as taking up their side, seemingly against me, I figured game-on; you want in - now you're in. I should have waited a while before typing.

You mentioned several times that it's just not worth it to remedy given that it's just a Chinese knife. I get that. Maybe they shouldn't sell them; maybe I shouldn't buy them. Seeing as it just not worth it to them - maybe they should have sent a replacement and made a loyal customer out of me such that I'd buy a few ZTs and post happy posts about their products.

That lock bar on the right in your pictures looks terrible, almost as bad as mine did when I sent it in the first time. When the lock bar distorted, that's when I got lots of wobble (two axis), not just lock rock. You like KAI and you have your reasons. I did too until I got this back (after six weeks) and am not a fan; reasonable people can disagree.

Look, I don't want to argue with you or turn this into a flame throwing badminton. I like this forum, I like knives and I don't go out of my way to take sides in disagreements here. I perceived that you did just that and I responded accordingly. I apologize if I was wrong in either mis-reading your intentions or in my response - or both, as the case may be. Please accept my apology.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted. I do want to clarify one thing though, my comments about them not taking time to repair a china made knife , are pure speculation on my part, I have no first hand knowledge of this. I would think that you they would not pay an employee $15 to repair a knife that perhaps only cost them a few dollars to have made, unless it was special to the customer. I do believe they care about the customer and the stuff they sell. I wish they didn't make knives in China too, but the market probably forced their hand in order to remain competitive. Please don't let one problem with any knife company keep you from enjoying nicely made USA products. Also if you had purchased this knife from me, I would have had you return it to me, I would have sent you a new one and you would not be upset with anyone. As far as I am concerned, we are good.
 
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