Kevin Cashen

[steelshaper]

I know this is a thread about how great Kevin is but I think everyone else here deserves a pat on the back to. This forum is a comunity that has been receptive to the advice and opinions that Kevin has put forward. I think the best way to show apreciation to Kevin is to keep the dialoge open and for all of us to strive to keep this forum the most kick@#$ place to learn about the art/science of bladesmithing.

So as I say thanks to Kevin I would also like to say thanks to everyone else too.

 

[deker]

Bah! I for one am tired of all of Kevin's "scientific" nonsense! It's all just a giant pile of hate-mongering pointed at those among us who want to prove to the discerning consumer that our new HyperTechnoCyberBulat(tm) is the one and true solution to blade steel! All of his namby-pamby "metalography" and "experimentation" doesn't amount to a hill of beans if it can't make the super awesome patterns I have in my HyperTechnoCyberBulat(tm)!!! And don't any of you thieves out there try to duplicate my HyperTechnoCyberBulat(tm)!!! I won't stand for it!!!! Now, where is my whiskey??



In all seriousness though, many of us owe a great debt to Kevin. Not because he's any an approximation of some shiny tin god (though I am wondering if a small shrine to Mr. Cashen in my forge will help my forging skills at all...), but because he openly ASKS us all to question him, his information, and his methods. In my opinion, there is no man so honest and noble as one who will openly place his work up for peer review by anybody who is willing to spend the time to review it. Thanks again Kevin for taking the time to share all of your hard work with us. It is deeply appreciated.

-d

 

[Tai Goo]

Don't feel bad Kevin. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. The important thing is being able to admit it and move on. I guess that's what learning is all about...

The steel itself IS the teacher! It already knows everything you'll ever need to know about it... all you have to do is learn how to listen... "metallogically" speaking.

We're all only human. Don't put yourself down!... Let me do that for you, hee hee!

You do fine at what you do and thanks for your honesty.
You are alright in my book, and I'm proud to call you my friend and my peer...

The Tin "Man"

Sometimes late when things are real
And people share the gift of gab between themselves
Some are quick to take the bait
And catch the perfect prize that waits among the shelves

But Oz never did give nothing to the tin man
That he didnt, didnt already have
And cause never was the reason for the evening
Or the tropic of sir galahad.

So please believe in me
When I say Im spinning round, round, round, round
Smoke glass stain bright color
Image going down, down, down, down
Soapsuds green like bubbles

Oh, Oz never did give nothing to the tin man
That he didnt, didnt already have
And cause never was the reason for the evening
Or the tropic of sir galahad

So please believe in me
When I say Im spinning round, round, round, round
Smoke glass stain bright color
Image going down, down, down, down
Soapsuds green like bubbles

No, Oz never did give nothing to the tin man
That he didnt, didnt already have
And cause never was the reason for the evening
Or the tropic of sir galahad

So please believe in me

 

[Tai Goo]

I know this is a thread about how great Kevin is but I think everyone else here deserves a pat on the back to. This forum is a comunity that has been receptive to the advice and opinions that Kevin has put forward. I think the best way to show apreciation to Kevin is to keep the dialoge open and for all of us to strive to keep this forum the most kick@#$ place to learn about the art/science of bladesmithing.

So as I say thanks to Kevin I would also like to say thanks to everyone else too.

Well said!

... me too!

 

[Kevin R. Cashen]

I know this is a thread about how great Kevin is but I think everyone else here deserves a pat on the back to. This forum is a comunity that has been receptive to the advice and opinions that Kevin has put forward. I think the best way to show apreciation to Kevin is to keep the dialoge open and for all of us to strive to keep this forum the most kick@#$ place to learn about the art/science of bladesmithing.

So as I say thanks to Kevin I would also like to say thanks to everyone else too.

Steelshaper, you summed up in one short paragraph, what I failed to communicate in several. Very well stated.

This forum sometimes gets badmouthed for being closed minded or arrogant, I simply cannot understand what world those critics live in. I have visited knifemaking sites all over the net and none of them have been as open minded to facts that may topple comfortable preconceived notions as this group. Let us not forget mete either, on so many sites I have been to the most closed minded and troublesome egos have not been the quaint yokels doing the voodoo hokey pokey, but those trained in material science looking to lord over some peasants, mete is not one of them. Here is a guy with some good background in metallurgy who has had the opportunity to apply it beyond the chalkboard. Instead of looking to take down that uppity bladesmith who reads too much mete has worked with me and helped in the exploration on any site we have shared time on.

The kind of information that I put any value on is the stuff that stands on its own and is completely valid no matter whose name you tack on the top of it. There are way too many asinine concepts that wouldn’t be given a second though if it were not for the recognizable name attached to it. I don’t care if you are the most famous smith in the world, and have been putting out books for 50 years, if the information is erroneous your input is no more valid than the guy who ground his first lawnmower blade into a bowie last week.

The only posts I care to make are the kind that would make total sense even with my name removed from it. That is why this thread should not be about me, it should be about the facts. Not the warm, feel-good facts, but the ones reminiscent of ice cold water getting tossed on us just as we were nodding off in ignorant bliss.

It is always more important to question the answers than it is to answer the questions. When the name at the top of the post becomes relevant is when that endless font of wisdom suddenly evaporates when real questions are asked; when actual data and legitimate sources are requested instead of platitudes and slogans.

This single forum has become the epicenter in asking those questions and being willing to hear reasonable responses, while still willing to say cut the crap and show us the data when the answers fall short. The reaction to the same at many sites out there is to circle the wagons to protect the little tin gods while the sycophantic lackeys lob flaming personal attacks until you go away and leave their safe little world view fully intact.

A good metallurgy text in every hand will allow the witchdoctors to keep on chanting their same old song but without any harm. There is no need to silence anybody, just we all deserve to know when to listen and when to just enjoy the show.

 

[Kevin R. Cashen]

OK
Back to steel,
Joe Szilaski was the presenter at the blacksmith's Askokan this weekend, and he apparently brings his blades up to the curie point and plunges them in quenching oil for 15 seconds between every forging heat to refine the grain. He also forges at 200 degrees below factory recommended forging heat for everything. I can understand the low temperature forging to keep scaling and decarb down although personally I think I'll stick to the manufacturers recommendations for forging temp, but is there benefits from quenching between each forging cycle? or can you get as much benefit from thermal cycling at the end of your forging?
also I always thought that that many quenchings wasn't good for most steels,
am I completely off base here?

-Page

Joe is a really nice guy who is pleasant to talk with isn't he? He makes some of the most beautiful tomahawks I have ever seen. The basic principles about the concepts in question is very quick to obtain with just a little of that independant research I have been talking about.

 

[sunshadow]

Thanks Kevin, guess it's back to the library and the shop for me. Should have expected that.
Yes Joe is a very nice guy, and his work that I saw was absolutely GORGEOUS! I have rarely seen steel with close to that level of finish, and his polish BETWEEN the carvings on a pipe hawk bowl (that were carved in situ) was cleaner than I have seen most people finish flat open spaces. The attention to detail is phenominal!

-Page

 

[Tai Goo]

A good metallurgy text in every hand will allow the witchdoctors to keep on chanting their same old song but without any harm. .

Not necessarily true Kevin. It may just give them fuel for their flames. Facts and scientific information get misinterpreted, misused, misapplied and abused all the time... as you well know.

It takes some common sense and some ethics,... to balance it out with.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Facts and scientific information get misinterpreted, misused, misapplied and abused all the time... as you well know.

It takes some common sense and some ethics,... to balance it out with.

Great observation, Tai... However, ask any pilot what happens when they start applying common sense rather than trusting their instruments!

This is a discussion that's occurred in previous threads, and not one that ought to be rehashed here.

 

[Dan Zawacki]

There is no shortage of information on bladesmithing, there is tons of if in print, on dvd and scattered across the net, but how much of it actually means anything? Tons of fluffy feel good information but if there are any facts included they are well hidden with a thick coating of whitewash. I feel folks hungering for information on how to make knives have been spoon fed the most atrocious prepackaged junk food for so long that any morsel of actual nutrition would have to hit the spot! Think about it, why do we eat junk food? Because it immediately tastes good at the time, and we aren’t really thinking about long term health when the deep fried, sugary glop excites our taste buds in just the way the manufacturers designed it in order to get our money!

This is why I, and many like me admire the thought process people like you evoke in us.

When I first started with an idea of making a blade, I was full of ghost stories, misinformation, and urban legend crap. One of the first people I ran into on the web was Mr. Cashen, who unashamedly called the crap what it was, and let me know by example that it was ok to bring logic, scientific method and critical examination of facts to bear. That research would bear fruit, and that industry had likely already explored the answers to any questions I would likely ever come up with in far greater depth than I would, and that if I dig hard enough those answers are out there to be had.

I think the biggest reason we all like people like MR. Cashen so much is he's the kinda guy that does two things that everyone likes. First, he's both quite well skilled in his own field, but he's also down to earth, personable, approachable, flawed, and overall, noticeably human. This makes us feel like the level of mastery he has achieved is not due to some ungodly preborn talent that we, ourselves will never posesess, but rather due to hard work, learning, and accumulation of skill over time.

This makes guys like Kevin very popular very quickly, as being demonstrably human and distinctly not a tin god (in his own words) makes the rest of us feel positive about his level of mastery. This is one of us regular guys that did hos homework and got real good. There is not the whole intimidation factor of the ungodly talent that we'll never measure up to. Thus, we, ourselves are not inspired to feelings of inadequacy.

Second, in sharing his hard earned knowledge, on a subconcious level, many of us see a mannerism that displays both a lack of insecurity and a willingness to help others become more than they are.

This too, makes one popular in a hurry. Super secret methods, voodoo quenchants and bizzar rituals serve a purpose of hiding how little one may actually know. By not only sharing his knowledge, but also pointing out the crap and hype for what it is, he plainly displays for the rest of us that we, too, can learn to discern "this" from "that".

This is also quite important in another way. In that it has the tendancy to inspire folks to go learn things on their own, to research, experiment, make mistakes and learn positive lessons from them. By inspiring folks to become more self sufficent, more self educating, and more personally secure in their own ability, Mr. Cashen achives a dual purpose of not becoming the little tin god he so despises, and at the same time encouraging and indeed inspiring confidence and competence in many with whom he comes in contact.

I know this is a thread about how great Kevin is but I think everyone else here deserves a pat on the back to. This forum is a comunity that has been receptive to the advice and opinions that Kevin has put forward. I think the best way to show apreciation to Kevin is to keep the dialoge open and for all of us to strive to keep this forum the most kick@#$ place to learn about the art/science of bladesmithing.

So as I say thanks to Kevin I would also like to say thanks to everyone else too.

This, too, is all too true. The amount of information available at the fingertips here is beyond comprehension. I have met some truly inspiring people since I started actually trying to smith, and most of them are regulars here.

 

[Sam Salvati]

Well I guess I need to keep you guessing then

Wow, I don't know what to say. I know I step on toes quite a bit in challenging the status quo, but the sad state of the status quo makes that unavoidable if you want to get good information. Often in order to build on a good foundation it is necessary to knock down the decrepit wreck of a structure standing in your way Thus I half expected another chastising when I clicked on this thread.

See everyone keeps saying this or that about the status qou, and what a nasty ol' beast it is, but I have never seen it ever rear it's ugly head here, looks like we are all together doing our job well!

 

[thombrogan]

Now if he can impress the non-bainite reasons for bladesmiths to use saltpots, that'd be a tin god feat.

 

[michdad]

I know this is a thread about how great Kevin is but I think everyone else here deserves a pat on the back to. This forum is a comunity that has been receptive to the advice and opinions that Kevin has put forward. I think the best way to show apreciation to Kevin is to keep the dialoge open and for all of us to strive to keep this forum the most kick@#$ place to learn about the art/science of bladesmithing.

So as I say thanks to Kevin I would also like to say thanks to everyone else too.

I am 42 years old, working in an occupation that is physically abusive to the body. Please bear with me? I like knves, and started to cruise this forum when I thought that might be a cool hobby to pursue for now till I part this earth. Part of my "education" has turned me into the black arts of making one myself. Two publications recommended by MOST of those here that I have been trying to chew my way thru are "Metallurgy for Bladesmiths and others..........." and I just found link to a "Timken" site that was posted today.
Not sure just how many lunatics really try to digest the parts pertinant to what they try to learn, but if you don't know, they can be pretty dry. :yawn: Kevin has a way to get thru the fog of my brain and help me to understand. The movie theater analogy made sometime ago regarding how and why different "ingredients" arange during the "heat treating process" still resides both in my mind, as well as my files!

That said: The poster quoted in this post said it best. I have found a welth of information and entertaining reading from ALL kinds of different people here. Thanks boys, girls, guys, and gals. Any anyone I failed to mention.

Matt