Kevin John Daboia AKA Venom 2

sirupatespecial said:
Gotta tell the truth.....just bought a Sebenza clone. Kevin John branded. Paid 88 bucks shipped. It doesn't say "made in Idaho". And doesnt' have CK logo on handle. And it says on the blade, in large letters, Triumph somethingorother, Kevin John, s35v. It does resemble a Sebenza. Like I could buy a Sebenza for $88.00....So, ya'll really think these clones, counterfeits..whatever, actually hurt Chris Reeve? On the contrary, I actually think they help his brand. You think maybe anyone has ever bought a clone and then bought a real CR? Maybe CR should be paying them royalties for advertising or something.

Kevin John(whoever that may be) also makes a Hinderer clone. Before I actually ordered I did a little research. I can't buy a Hinderer new, apparently. I can buy them at a jacked up price used. From firemen, law enforcement and military who many times buy to resell. That's a whole lot better than buying a clone for 25% of the price for a knife that is constantly sold out:rolleyes:

I don't buy knives to sit in a drawer. I buy them to use. Maybe one day I'll buy a "real" Sebenza". Can't see my self carrying a $400.00 knive everday...Call me cheap. Or smart. Or cheap. I don't care. Except how many hand made knives have I bought on the exchange? Several.

Crap. Sorry. Nice Venom! Wished I had looked here before I bought. I thought the Venom was a clone.:p Really.....
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If you want a hinderer but don't want to pay secondary prices, buy a ZT. don't buy a knockoff.
 
mr_anderson said:
If you want a hinderer but don't want to pay secondary prices, buy a ZT. don't buy a knockoff.
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I don't want a Hinderer. The point is, if I wanted one, new, I couldn't buy it. So, what is wrong with a Hinderer copy when I can't buy a real one anyway?

Back to the Venom. Looks nice. Hope it is a good(great?) knife for the owner. Wouldn't it be funny(strange) if say CR copied it? I know one thing, If CR cloned it or Hinderer or ZT it sure wouldn't hurt Kevin John business. You see what I'm saying? The Chinese copy's don't hurt CR or Hinderer. The Venom won't hurt them either. Unless it turns out to be "just as good" at 1/3 the price. And being an original, at least as original as a knife can be, then no one could complain about it.
 
The fact that it is marked S35V on the blade does not meen much
Could be generic chinese steel and you would not know it
Remember these companies are making fakes in the first place
What makes you think they have any problem screwing you over ?
 
Revolverrodger said:
The fact that it is marked S35V on the blade does not meen much
Could be generic chinese steel and you would not know it
Remember these companies are making fakes in the first place
What makes you think they have any problem screwing you over ?
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Except we know that Crucible has sold S35VN to Chinese manufacturers.
 
Revolverrodger said:
What makes you think they have any problem screwing you over ?
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Maybe the fact that they want to stay in business? :confused:

Anyway, my basic position is that there's only one reason not to buy a counterfeit, and that's because if you do, you'll be buying it from someone who is, by definition, a thief. If that doesn't bother you . . . and apparently it hasn't bothered enough people to prevent counterfeiting from becoming an estimated $500B global industry . . . then do what you want. And I wouldn't pay too much attention to folks who say that counterfeit knives are junk, particularly Kevin John branded counterfeits. Most of them have never seen a Kevin John counterfeit, let alone owned one. And everything I've heard and read from people who actually have owned them would seem to suggest that they're very well made.

mr_anderson said:
If you want a hinderer but don't want to pay secondary prices, buy a ZT. don't buy a knockoff.
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I agree, with one proviso. ZT actually has to make the Hinderer you're interested in buying. If they don't, that idea won't work.
 
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Let's not let this go down that road again. Really, nothing good comes from arguing about clones. Literally nothing.

No matter how good of a point you think you've made, the clones will still be produced and people will still buy them. I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing - it just is reality.

At least Kizer and Reate exist as a shining beacon of honor and virtue amongst Chinese knife manufacturers. I remember when Kizer made its debut on the board and showed me the ugly side you guys can have. We have some real xenophobes here, and some real hate behind it. I saw some pretty vicious things being said and assumed without any evidence or hesitance.

Hopefully, as Chinese knifemakers and manufacturers continue to pop up and strengthen the image of both the country and their products, more will follow suit and drown out the perceptions many have about Chinese knives.

Also, maybe you guys will stop being prissy about origin and labelling details on your cutting tools. You people are like snobbish fashionistas sometimes, I swear. "UGH. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD WEAR THAT FAKE ROLEX. YOU AND THE PEOPLE WHO MADE IT ARE AWFUL."

Get a sense of perspective, would you? They're sharp things people buy to cut with. The shape and stamps are immaterial if it's what fits the consumers' needs. That's the real brutal truth there - clones exist because there is a market for them. They are at the right ratios of price:quality:shape for, clearly, a pretty decent number of people. If someone wants a $100 hinderer clone and knows it's a $100 clone, then they have hurt nobody through purchasing, owning, and using it.

Counterpoint: "What if they try to sell it as the real thing?"

You can't blame the company for what someone does with a product. If someone bought a $10 print of a priceless painting, that person would be able to enjoy the painting with more of their money intact and with the knowledge it isn't the real thing. If they tried to pass it off as the real thing, then they would be a douche. Note that the entity that produced the print is not to blame.

Again, I'm not saying this makes clones a good thing, just a thing that you can't argue away. You also do your credibility a disservice by oversimplifying things to black and white, good and bad, right and wrong. Some things just are, and it's how others interact with / react to and with them that is important.

I'm hopeful. I won't buy a Venom or any Chinese manufactured knife over $30 unless I get a good warranty along with it, and Kizer is paving the way for others to follow. I personally doubt Reate would be nearly as successful and well-regarded if Kizer hadn't jumped up first and been smacked around a bit by skeptics and xenophobes.

What's funny is that I've never seen someone demand any other company prove they were using the steel they claimed to be using, and yet people were ready to burn Kizer at the stake until CRUCIBLE THEMSELVES verified that they were using S35VN. Double standards belie your latent prejudices.
 
Well at least nobody's trying to hijack the thread. It started out being about a counterfeit knife and it's still about counterfeit knives. So you can't say we're off topic. The real test is whether we can have a civil conversation about counterfeit knives. That's been problematic up to now, but maybe we can learn from our mistakes and behave like adults.
 
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bld522 said:
Well at least nobody's trying to hijack the thread. It started out being about a counterfeit knife and it's still about counterfeit knives. So you can't say we're off topic. The real test is whether we can have a civil conversation about counterfeit knives. That's been problematic up to now, but maybe we can learn from our mistakes and behave like adults.

Time will tell . . .
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We're all manbabies here. It's just a matter of time before someone says something that sets off a tantrum of ad hominem and unjustified statements and accusations.

/aboveitall
/blamelessobserver
 
I tire of following good threads about non-USA (read China), non-original-design (as if there are any truly original designs left) knives, only to find someone wading in with their "red herring." POOF, thread derailed and all participants foresake the knife discussion for the "herring." Move along, children, nothing more to see here!

Comeuppance, I hope you don't mind if I merely cut-and-paste your above reponse to every derailed knfe thread I read.

Thank You!
 
Comeuppance said:
We're all manbabies here. It's just a matter of time before someone says something that sets off a tantrum of ad hominem and unjustified statements and accusations.

/aboveitall
/blamelessobserver
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I believe the word you're searching for is "inevitable", or at least it has been up to now. But I still cling to hope . . .
 
Comeuppance said:
We're all manbabies here. It's just a matter of time before someone says something that sets off a tantrum of ad hominem and unjustified statements and accusations.

/aboveitall
/blamelessobserver
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I don't know. I think this thread has be very civil. I thank all those who haven't ridiculed my decision to buy an obvious counterfeit.

10..9...8..7...6...
 
Your timing was good. The mods softened some folks up recently for derailing threads and they're over in a corner licking their wounds . . . at least for the moment. But I can still see the steam rising, so I wouldn't press my luck. And besides, wouldn't it be something if we could all just gently walk away from this thread before it blows up on us? I'd call that a miracle. As for me, I'm done here. See y'all on the other side.
 
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bld522 said:
Well at least nobody's trying to hijack the thread. It started out being about a counterfeit knife and it's still about counterfeit knives. So you can't say we're off topic. The real test is whether we can have a civil conversation about counterfeit knives. That's been problematic up to now, but maybe we can learn from our mistakes and behave like adults.
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*cough* This thread started about the Venom II which is not a counterfeit knife, it is an original (if somewhat derivative, but what isn't these days?) design. It was the trolls (on both sides) who derailed it in to being about counterfiets.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
*cough* This thread started about the Venom II which is not a counterfeit knife, it is an original (if somewhat derivative, but what isn't these days?) design.
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That's technically true, but you have to be a hell of a Sophist to expect a thread about Kevin John to not go this way on Blade Forums.
 
Ace Krampus said:
That's technically true, but you have to be a hell of a Sophist to expect a thread about Kevin John to not go this way on Blade Forums.
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That's why I didn't post it. The review thread in the review section has been civil until just recently, but it was also about the CKF version of the knife which doesn't have a billboard all over it with negative connotations.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
That's why I didn't post it. The review thread in the review section has been civil until just recently, but it was also about the CKF version of the knife which doesn't have a billboard all over it with negative connotations.
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True words, brother. And to be honest, I am curious about what the various factories can produce. I mean, at every price-point, from every continent, you can get a solid knife. That ends up being pretty damned good for the consumer.
 
Lost Cosmonaut said:
C95XFgI.jpg
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ROFLMAO I don't know why but that made me snort out loud.
 
I just have to chime in here about the Venom 2. I bought a few after reading Purpledc's review thread.
I thought Chinese stuff was all basically junk or glovebox/who-cares-if-you-lose-it knives until I saw that review. It's actually a really nice knife, and priced very fairly for all the features (including tritium) and materials. The construction is top-notch as well. I also think the design is really nice looking.

There really isn't anything lacking in it, with the exception of the way the pocket clip really grabs your pocket because of the way it meets right at the edge of the frame cut for the lock.

I didn't know anything about Kevin John or even that there were a such thing as "good" knife clones before that either, since I haven't paid attention in awhile. But honestly, if they knock off making the knock-offs & keep producing cool, high-quality stuff like this at similar prices they'll be a force to be reckoned with.
 
bitfiend said:
I just have to chime in here about the Venom 2. I bought a few after reading Purpledc's review thread.
I thought Chinese stuff was all basically junk or glovebox/who-cares-if-you-lose-it knives until I saw that review. It's actually a really nice knife, and priced very fairly for all the features (including tritium) and materials. The construction is top-notch as well. I also think the design is really nice looking.

There really isn't anything lacking in it, with the exception of the way the pocket clip really grabs your pocket because of the way it meets right at the edge of the frame cut for the lock.

I didn't know anything about Kevin John or even that there were a such thing as "good" knife clones before that either, since I haven't paid attention in awhile. But honestly, if they knock off making the knock-offs & keep producing cool, high-quality stuff like this at similar prices they'll be a force to be reckoned with.
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There are certain companies like A dai that have been making extremely high quality pieces for awhile now..
 
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