I ordered a great knife from kevin wilkins in the ending of january. he told me that the delay was two months for a damasteel ghost dog pup like i want one, and that he had this blade in stock. every two weeks, I asked for some news.first he told me that my knife will be ready in 5 weeks after my first payment.two weeks after, he said 4 weeks to be ready. in mars he said that he had my blade (??? i thought my blade was in stock!) and could work on it,and that it will be ok in 2 weeks and i would have to wait several weeks for the finish. these days, I discovered a pass around on britishblade forum with some guys who ordered the same knife as me one week before me! and kevin told them that their knife will be ready in one week! i emailed kevin to ask some news.and he answered me that my knife may be ready in the beginning of mai! i was pissed! i sent a email to say how much i'm disappointed. and he replied without an excuse that he was the master and that i have to shut up! that my several emails is the reason of the delay, because the 3 words he wrote each time takes his precious time. what an ass##! (I will add our both mails sunday, even all my mail and his replies to witness how bad he talked to me!) i made the big mistake to pay entirely the knife because i misunderstood an email, but i trusted him.since the day i payed him, his professionalism changed.but i'm a customer! i gave him a lot of money because i loved his work.he owes me respect and patience because i give him a part of his salary and i make his reputation! he doesn't have to treat me like that!
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Kevin Wilkins
- Thread starter moonlight
- Start date
That is surprising as I had a chance to purchase a knife from him and changed my mind as I saw one for sale all ready to buy at a store. He was very nice and said buy what feels good for you as it is your knife. We had exchanged emaile about 4 times and he was always courteous.
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If you have corectly reported comments he made in "may" (Mai), you have been waiting well over a year for your knife.
Or did you mean March (Mars)?
Or did you mean March (Mars)?
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- May 9, 2000
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- 29,205
I emailed Kevin about this thread and provided him a link. Hopefully we will hear from him.
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- Nov 9, 2004
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Keith Montgomery said:
I did the same when this thread was first posted.
with this thread, i don't want to have a priority for my order. but a bit of honesty, professionalism and apology. he said that he lost his time each time he replied to me, but i think that a good relationship needs a good and updated contacts between the knifemaker and his customers.that i had no idea about when he receives his order, but the forum fellow on bf said in a post dated from the beginning of february that he contact kevin this day about his order.why did my order not put in the same batch? his website says that he updates the evolution of every order to the customers, but not me.i have to ask how is my knife and learn that 2 months after my order he haven't even started my knife yet.i just don't like that we lie to me.
The rule is : you mustn't pay a knife if he is not yet in your hand....
That's quite disappointing...
Are you his only one customer to ask him some news about a knife? Does he waste his time each time he posts on a forum too???:jerkit:
That's quite disappointing...
Are you his only one customer to ask him some news about a knife? Does he waste his time each time he posts on a forum too???:jerkit:
Hopefully Kevin will speak for himself here, but reading your post, it sounds a bit like the steel is what he was referring to having in stock (and I got it that there seemed to be another time later he said he "got it" in stock).
Sometimes makers do things in batches, that one ordered a bit before yours got done and delivered doesn't necessarily mean he is shining you on.
Also, frankly, it's been a very short time since you ordered the knife, in custom knifemaker waiting terms, if you ordered at the end of January.
That's a very short wait. Sounds a bit like you're used to buying from a stocking dealer more than what is usually involved in ordering from a custom maker.
Obviously you didn't take a lot of his time. But your "tone" may have set him off where he didn't really want to deal with the tone, if you were poking him hard after just 2 months or so.
He may have changed after you paid him, and as well, you may have changed after you paid him. If the wait has been that brief, it does sound like your tone changed. Re: him quoting a 2 month wait, at the end of January, well, end of March is a 2 month wait, he's not that far behind.
If you want nice things, sometimes you need a little patience, and you'd better treat an artist with some flexibility and courtesy yourself, or artists quit doing art. People treating them like furniture movers make them want to get out of the business.
Frank H.
Sometimes makers do things in batches, that one ordered a bit before yours got done and delivered doesn't necessarily mean he is shining you on.
Also, frankly, it's been a very short time since you ordered the knife, in custom knifemaker waiting terms, if you ordered at the end of January.
That's a very short wait. Sounds a bit like you're used to buying from a stocking dealer more than what is usually involved in ordering from a custom maker.
Obviously you didn't take a lot of his time. But your "tone" may have set him off where he didn't really want to deal with the tone, if you were poking him hard after just 2 months or so.
He may have changed after you paid him, and as well, you may have changed after you paid him. If the wait has been that brief, it does sound like your tone changed. Re: him quoting a 2 month wait, at the end of January, well, end of March is a 2 month wait, he's not that far behind.
If you want nice things, sometimes you need a little patience, and you'd better treat an artist with some flexibility and courtesy yourself, or artists quit doing art. People treating them like furniture movers make them want to get out of the business.
Frank H.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,492
What a load of ****! :barf:
First, let's get the silly accusation regarding French "racism" out of the way. I have many satisfied customers in France; I like France and things French allthough this has no bearing at all on my selling knives. Bach when France and Germany refused to participate in the War on Iraq I came out publicly on these forums supporting the French and German decisions, and I took heat from some members who were of another opinion. Now I read this guy's nonsense. Oh, brother and the whole time I've still been eating French Fries!
The fact that this customer – who's name I can provide – brings up such a false, misplaced and slanderous accusation should show everyone reading what kind of person I have to deal with.
The facts of the order
I have received 20 emails from this guy since January 26, 2006 pertaining first to his interest in perhaps placing and order and then regarding his order.
His order was received on the Feb. 1, 2006. Yes, I received his order exactly 2 Months ago.
Payment
This guy asked me on the 26th Jan. to accept payment in 3 equal payments. This was his idea, not mine. He asked ME for 2 months to get the money together as he said he was "not very rich."
I answered and agreed, quoting from my reply "I can take payment in 3 payments via paypal, or you can pay the deposit and the balance at one time in 2 month when the knife is ready. I have delivery time now of easily 2 months so that is no problem."
He paypal'd me the first 185 Euros on the 29th Jan, BEFORE even sending the orderform. I had and have never promised any firm delivery date.
He then asked if Odin's Eye Damasteel would even be possible! I replyed that it would be possible and that I "may" have that steel in stock. Read "may" as it's quoted from my reply to him. I have never stated that his blade was ready.
Then suddenly on the 8th Feb (onweek later!) I receive the 2nd PayPal payment from him and in the message area "If it is not too late, I would like to do a light modification in my orderform. I would like to have Edges fire anodized, flat powder matt instead of all surfaces bead blasted (don't you think It is better for not having some scratches on the handle?) Let me know if it's possible. If it is too late, don't worry, I will be ok."
I don't accept changes to orders in progress and say so on my website, HOWEVER I agreed to the changes, even though the grips for his knife were already done, noted the changes on his orderform and replied, "2nd Payment has arrived, I can still change the grips. You may wait for the last payment until I have the knife ready to ship.
That will be easily 5 weeks..." He agreed.
The on the 16th Feb he wants more changes! Excerting from his mail, "I would be the happiest man of the world if I could have a olive wood grip scale on my knife. I hope It is not too late for you and It doesn't bother you to do it for me."
I replied on the same day that grip scales were not possible on a framelock knife.
The on the 25th Feb more money via PayPal, which I NEVER asked for and in fact asked him NOT to send any more funds until the knife was ready. I replied, "Hello, I thought you were going to send the last payment when the knife was ready? It will be at least 4 weeks before I finish the knife." Notice at least 4 weeks!
On the 9th March another mail, his birthday is coming up and he wants the knife ready then, to which I replied, "I'M sorry there is no way the knife will be ready in 2 weeks. There are still many knives ahead of yours to finish."
Then more and more mails, when is the knife ready? When? Only the most pertinent mails have been refered to here. I have all 20 on file.
And I have answered his mails and tried to keep him posted on the progress of his knife. I have told him I work on many knives at the same time: I have told him that when I deliver another customer's order doesn't have any bearing on his order; I have told him there are customers who ordered in 2005 and I am still working on their knives. This guy is the only customer in all my years of making knives who doesn't or won't understand these things.
This guy has tried every trick to get me to make his knife immediately to the disadvantage of my business and my other customers. He has tried sending me payments I asked him NOT to send; he has tried the old birthday story; he has wrongly accused me of betraying his trust and tried to make me feel guilty for hurting him. He even accusses me now of being a "racist" toward the entire French nation! :jerkit: Now he is trying to smear my reputation.
Well, it's all **** and lies. I think most of those who know me all these years in cyberspace - maybe even some who don't always agree with me - will know that's not how I do business. I know my customers know that's not how I operate and thanks to those who have already written me with their support.
I have spent a great deal of time answering mails from this guy. More time than it takes me to make his blade actually. I have agreed to change his order in mid-stream as a favor.
I have never promised any firm delivery date for his knife. I always promise to do the best I can and make the best knife I can make NOT the fastest knife I can make.
I think this is one reason I have very large percentage of repeat customers from all over the world.
I will finish and deliver to this customer the knife he ordered as soon as I can, which as I have already told him will now probably not be before early May. I had hoped for mid-Apüril but that now looks unlikely.
Of course I have now lost an entire half day of work just answering this one slanderous post from the guy.
I have edited-out the foul language.
----glockman99
First, let's get the silly accusation regarding French "racism" out of the way. I have many satisfied customers in France; I like France and things French allthough this has no bearing at all on my selling knives. Bach when France and Germany refused to participate in the War on Iraq I came out publicly on these forums supporting the French and German decisions, and I took heat from some members who were of another opinion. Now I read this guy's nonsense. Oh, brother and the whole time I've still been eating French Fries!
The fact that this customer – who's name I can provide – brings up such a false, misplaced and slanderous accusation should show everyone reading what kind of person I have to deal with.
The facts of the order
I have received 20 emails from this guy since January 26, 2006 pertaining first to his interest in perhaps placing and order and then regarding his order.
His order was received on the Feb. 1, 2006. Yes, I received his order exactly 2 Months ago.
Payment
This guy asked me on the 26th Jan. to accept payment in 3 equal payments. This was his idea, not mine. He asked ME for 2 months to get the money together as he said he was "not very rich."
I answered and agreed, quoting from my reply "I can take payment in 3 payments via paypal, or you can pay the deposit and the balance at one time in 2 month when the knife is ready. I have delivery time now of easily 2 months so that is no problem."
He paypal'd me the first 185 Euros on the 29th Jan, BEFORE even sending the orderform. I had and have never promised any firm delivery date.
He then asked if Odin's Eye Damasteel would even be possible! I replyed that it would be possible and that I "may" have that steel in stock. Read "may" as it's quoted from my reply to him. I have never stated that his blade was ready.
Then suddenly on the 8th Feb (onweek later!) I receive the 2nd PayPal payment from him and in the message area "If it is not too late, I would like to do a light modification in my orderform. I would like to have Edges fire anodized, flat powder matt instead of all surfaces bead blasted (don't you think It is better for not having some scratches on the handle?) Let me know if it's possible. If it is too late, don't worry, I will be ok."
I don't accept changes to orders in progress and say so on my website, HOWEVER I agreed to the changes, even though the grips for his knife were already done, noted the changes on his orderform and replied, "2nd Payment has arrived, I can still change the grips. You may wait for the last payment until I have the knife ready to ship.
That will be easily 5 weeks..." He agreed.
The on the 16th Feb he wants more changes! Excerting from his mail, "I would be the happiest man of the world if I could have a olive wood grip scale on my knife. I hope It is not too late for you and It doesn't bother you to do it for me."
I replied on the same day that grip scales were not possible on a framelock knife.
The on the 25th Feb more money via PayPal, which I NEVER asked for and in fact asked him NOT to send any more funds until the knife was ready. I replied, "Hello, I thought you were going to send the last payment when the knife was ready? It will be at least 4 weeks before I finish the knife." Notice at least 4 weeks!
On the 9th March another mail, his birthday is coming up and he wants the knife ready then, to which I replied, "I'M sorry there is no way the knife will be ready in 2 weeks. There are still many knives ahead of yours to finish."
Then more and more mails, when is the knife ready? When? Only the most pertinent mails have been refered to here. I have all 20 on file.
And I have answered his mails and tried to keep him posted on the progress of his knife. I have told him I work on many knives at the same time: I have told him that when I deliver another customer's order doesn't have any bearing on his order; I have told him there are customers who ordered in 2005 and I am still working on their knives. This guy is the only customer in all my years of making knives who doesn't or won't understand these things.
This guy has tried every trick to get me to make his knife immediately to the disadvantage of my business and my other customers. He has tried sending me payments I asked him NOT to send; he has tried the old birthday story; he has wrongly accused me of betraying his trust and tried to make me feel guilty for hurting him. He even accusses me now of being a "racist" toward the entire French nation! :jerkit: Now he is trying to smear my reputation.
Well, it's all **** and lies. I think most of those who know me all these years in cyberspace - maybe even some who don't always agree with me - will know that's not how I do business. I know my customers know that's not how I operate and thanks to those who have already written me with their support.
I have spent a great deal of time answering mails from this guy. More time than it takes me to make his blade actually. I have agreed to change his order in mid-stream as a favor.
I have never promised any firm delivery date for his knife. I always promise to do the best I can and make the best knife I can make NOT the fastest knife I can make.
I think this is one reason I have very large percentage of repeat customers from all over the world.
I will finish and deliver to this customer the knife he ordered as soon as I can, which as I have already told him will now probably not be before early May. I had hoped for mid-Apüril but that now looks unlikely.
Of course I have now lost an entire half day of work just answering this one slanderous post from the guy.
I have edited-out the foul language.
----glockman99
yeah of course i'm the lier.a lot of my 20 mails was thanks and infos for a friend interested about a knife. i sent the last payment by mistake, because i had the money at this moment and i thought that i have to pay to prove my good faith in this order, not to have my knife sooner.you could refuse it but you accept it,don't you? if now his majesty want to punish me for this hassle,refund me my money and let's forget this story.Kevin Wilkins said:What a load of ****! :barf:
First, let's get the silly accusation regarding French "racism" out of the way. I have many satisfied customers in France; I like France and things French allthough this has no bearing at all on my selling knives. Bach when France and Germany refused to participate in the War on Iraq I came out publicly on these forums supporting the French and German decisions, and I took heat from some members who were of another opinion. Now I read this guy's nonsense. Oh, brother and the whole time I've still been eating French Fries!
The fact that this customer – who's name I can provide – brings up such a false, misplaced and slanderous accusation should show everyone reading what kind of person I have to deal with.
The facts of the order
I have received 20 emails from this guy since January 26, 2006 pertaining first to his interest in perhaps placing and order and then regarding his order.
His order was received on the Feb. 1, 2006. Yes, I received his order exactly 2 Months ago.
Payment
This guy asked me on the 26th Jan. to accept payment in 3 equal payments. This was his idea, not mine. He asked ME for 2 months to get the money together as he said he was "not very rich."
I answered and agreed, quoting from my reply "I can take payment in 3 payments via paypal, or you can pay the deposit and the balance at one time in 2 month when the knife is ready. I have delivery time now of easily 2 months so that is no problem."
He paypal'd me the first 185 Euros on the 29th Jan, BEFORE even sending the orderform. I had and have never promised any firm delivery date.
He then asked if Odin's Eye Damasteel would even be possible! I replyed that it would be possible and that I "may" have that steel in stock. Read "may" as it's quoted from my reply to him. I have never stated that his blade was ready.
Then suddenly on the 8th Feb (onweek later!) I receive the 2nd PayPal payment from him and in the message area "If it is not too late, I would like to do a light modification in my orderform. I would like to have Edges fire anodized, flat powder matt instead of all surfaces bead blasted (don't you think It is better for not having some scratches on the handle?) Let me know if it's possible. If it is too late, don't worry, I will be ok."
I don't accept changes to orders in progress and say so on my website, HOWEVER I agreed to the changes, even though the grips for his knife were already done, noted the changes on his orderform and replied, "2nd Payment has arrived, I can still change the grips. You may wait for the last payment until I have the knife ready to ship.
That will be easily 5 weeks..." He agreed.
The on the 16th Feb he wants more changes! Excerting from his mail, "I would be the happiest man of the world if I could have a olive wood grip scale on my knife. I hope It is not too late for you and It doesn't bother you to do it for me."
I replied on the same day that grip scales were not possible on a framelock knife.
The on the 25th Feb more money via PayPal, which I NEVER asked for and in fact asked him NOT to send any more funds until the knife was ready. I replied, "Hello, I thought you were going to send the last payment when the knife was ready? It will be at least 4 weeks before I finish the knife." Notice at least 4 weeks!
On the 9th March another mail, his birthday is coming up and he wants the knife ready then, to which I replied, "I'M sorry there is no way the knife will be ready in 2 weeks. There are still many knives ahead of yours to finish."
Then more and more mails, when is the knife ready? When? Only the most pertinent mails have been refered to here. I have all 20 on file.
And I have answered his mails and tried to keep him posted on the progress of his knife. I have told him I work on many knives at the same time: I have told him that when I deliver another customer's order doesn't have any bearing on his order; I have told him there are customers who ordered in 2005 and I am still working on their knives. This guy is the only customer in all my years of making knives who doesn't or won't understand these things.
This guy has tried every trick to get me to make his knife immediately to the disadvantage of my business and my other customers. He has tried sending me payments I asked him NOT to send; he has tried the old birthday story; he has wrongly accused me of betraying his trust and tried to make me feel guilty for hurting him. He even accusses me now of being a "racist" toward the entire French nation! :jerkit: Now he is trying to smear my reputation.
Well, it's all **** and lies. I think most of those who know me all these years in cyberspace - maybe even some who don't always agree with me - will know that's not how I do business. I know my customers know that's not how I operate and thanks to those who have already written me with their support.
I have spent a great deal of time answering mails from this guy. More time than it takes me to make his blade actually. I have agreed to change his order in mid-stream as a favor.
I have never promised any firm delivery date for his knife. I always promise to do the best I can and make the best knife I can make NOT the fastest knife I can make.
I think this is one reason I have very large percentage of repeat customers from all over the world.
I will finish and deliver to this customer the knife he ordered as soon as I can, which as I have already told him will now probably not be before early May. I had hoped for mid-April but that now looks unlikely.
Of course I have now lost an entire half day of work just answering this one slanderous post from the guy.
moonlight,
First, I don't know how many knives that you have ordered, but from my experience, two-three months is an unreasonable expectation for any good maker. I have waited nearly 3 years for custom ordered knives.
Secondly, if you badger any craftsmen, they tend to get obstinate. If it were me, I would have declined your business early on in the process.
Lastly, calling someone a bigot on a public forum is slander and you need to have factual information to support your allegations.
You might consider sticking withn production knives that you can handle and buy the same day.:barf:
First, I don't know how many knives that you have ordered, but from my experience, two-three months is an unreasonable expectation for any good maker. I have waited nearly 3 years for custom ordered knives.
Secondly, if you badger any craftsmen, they tend to get obstinate. If it were me, I would have declined your business early on in the process.
Lastly, calling someone a bigot on a public forum is slander and you need to have factual information to support your allegations.
You might consider sticking withn production knives that you can handle and buy the same day.:barf:
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
As I now understand the facts, work has already been done on the knife in question. Therefore, a full refund would not be in order even if the maker wished to release the buyer from his order.
And the buyer's last email refutes NONE of Kevin's statement of facts.
No "privacy law" prevents publication of the emails that were exchanged.
And the buyer's last email refutes NONE of Kevin's statement of facts.
No "privacy law" prevents publication of the emails that were exchanged.
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2001
- Messages
- 12,343
Ugghh. Moonlight, somehow you got off on the wrong foot and still never recovered. The knife you ordered sounds like a knife I would be *priviledged* to own. And it sounds like you don't want it now.
If so, email me and I'd be pleased to take this transaction over. Paypal you your money and let Kevin finish the knife when he gets to it. For me. You can move on.
I am not justifying or dismissing anything you said. I just know that one NEVER enjoys a custom knife unless they enjoy working with the maker. It's part of the process. This has now gotten too ugly to see anyone 'enjoying' the transaction.
Looking forward to your response.
Coop
If so, email me and I'd be pleased to take this transaction over. Paypal you your money and let Kevin finish the knife when he gets to it. For me. You can move on.
I am not justifying or dismissing anything you said. I just know that one NEVER enjoys a custom knife unless they enjoy working with the maker. It's part of the process. This has now gotten too ugly to see anyone 'enjoying' the transaction.
Looking forward to your response.
Coop
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
Moonlight, it doesn't look to me that kevin has done anything wrong here and that you are being way too impatient. It does not look to me that you were ever promised your knife in two months and that you were only given an approximate delivery date. Even if you had been promised two months, the fact that you changed your order will always put that date back. If you can show us that you were indeed promised the knife in two months then you should do so.
Having dealt with many custom makers, none of them have ever given me a locked in stone delivery date. Too many things can happen. The maker can get sick, or a friend or family member can as well. A disaster can happen in the making of the knife that requires extra time. The customer can ask for changes that will take more time and push back the delivery time.
Moonlight, as far as I am concerned you are wrong in having brought this here at this time. You are being far too impatient. Give Kevin a break and allow him the time that he requires to make your knife the best he can. Do not rush him, as this can lead to mistakes being made in the making of your knife. If he doesn't come through with the knife in May, and doesn't have good reason for the delay, then come back and let us know.
Also, it is my opinion that any refund given to you by Kevin should be at his discretion. If he would rather not have to deal with this situation any more that is up to him, but he doesn't owe you a refund at this time. What he owes you is a knife made correctly and in a timely manner.
As far as I am conerned your attempt to damage Kevin's reputation reflects very poorly on you.
Having dealt with many custom makers, none of them have ever given me a locked in stone delivery date. Too many things can happen. The maker can get sick, or a friend or family member can as well. A disaster can happen in the making of the knife that requires extra time. The customer can ask for changes that will take more time and push back the delivery time.
Moonlight, as far as I am concerned you are wrong in having brought this here at this time. You are being far too impatient. Give Kevin a break and allow him the time that he requires to make your knife the best he can. Do not rush him, as this can lead to mistakes being made in the making of your knife. If he doesn't come through with the knife in May, and doesn't have good reason for the delay, then come back and let us know.
Also, it is my opinion that any refund given to you by Kevin should be at his discretion. If he would rather not have to deal with this situation any more that is up to him, but he doesn't owe you a refund at this time. What he owes you is a knife made correctly and in a timely manner.
As far as I am conerned your attempt to damage Kevin's reputation reflects very poorly on you.