- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
Let's take a look at what they do before we start with variations.
Khukuri Designs - thoughts?
- Thread starter Daniel Koster
- Start date
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,437
Hi Ghorka, amusing story!
One thing--Vikings landed in the new world in the 900s AD. The natives had stone axes, stone tipped spears and arrows. The 'TOMAHAWKS' as you refer to them did not exist yet. The Americans wanted the metal weapons (think of the arms race!) the Vikings had, and the vikings wer quite interested in the stone axe heads because they had a legend associated with the stone axe heads (which involved Storm-go Thor and "thunderstones")
Also, the Francisca (Frankish axe) is much the dimensions of the modern 'hawk, and other viking axes from finds are much the dimensions of a tomahawk.
For other accfepted accounts of the meeting of Scandinavian and American, you might read:
The Vinland Sagas by Snorri Sturlsson
Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga by Smithsonian.
There's some interesting stuff about the meetings and dealings between these two magnificent cultures.
Czech out this webpage about the Micmaq culture an their histories deal with the coming of the Norse...
http://www.mikmaq.com/net/history/1ce-1500ce.html
For those who cannot link directly...
----------------------
986 C.E
Íslendingur (Icelander) trader Bjarni Herjolfsson and his crew are driven off course by bad weather on their way from Ísland (Iceland) to meet Bjarni's father at the new Norrnn (Norse) colony in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). While they are lost off course, they sight Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland). They don't go ashore while they are lost. Eventually they ride a southwest wind back to the Eastern Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) settlement at Herjolfsnes (Ikigait).
1001 C.E - 1002 C.E
Bjarni Herjolfsson returns to his home in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). Leif Eiriksson buys Bjarni Herjolfsson's ship and hires a crew of 35 men. Leif Eiriksson sails west and discovers Helluland (Baffin Island), Markland (Labrador) and Vinland (Newfoundland). Leif Eiriksson stays the winter in Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1002 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson, Leif Eiriksson's brother, learns of Leif's exploits and sails with a crew to Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland) and spends the winter there in peace.
1003 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson explores the Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) west coast.
Thorvald Eiriksson returns and spends another winter at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1004 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson ventures through other parts of Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) and is killed by an arrow during an exchange with the Betoukuag (Beothuk).
Thorvald Eiriksson's crew returns and winters at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1005 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson's crew returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) with the news of his death.
Thorstein Eiriksson, Thorvald Eiriksson's brother, sets out for Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) to retrieve the body of his brother. However foul weather prevents him from making much progress all summer and he returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland).
1006 C.E
Þorfinn Karlsefni, a wealthy Norrnn (Norse), leads a colonizing expedition to Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) with three ships, 160 men (some with their wives) and a bull, along with other livestock. Leif Eiriksson agrees to lend Þorfinn Karlsefni his houses at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland). The expedition spends a peaceful winter at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1007 C.E
Gudrid Thorbjarnardottir, wife of Þhorfinn Eiriksson, gives birth to Snorri Þorfinnsson. Snorri Þorfinnsson is thus the first known European to be born in North America. The Norrnn (Norse) colonists first meet and trade with the Aboriginals.
1008 C.E
A Betoukuag (Beothuk) is killed while trying to steal weapons from Thorfinn Eiriksson. A battle with the Betoukuag (Beothuk) later ensues.
1009 C.E
The Þorfinn Karlsefni expedition returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) where they spend the winter.
1010 C.E
Frøydis Eiriksdottir, sister of Leif Eiriksson, and a crew mount a joint expedition with Íslendingur (Icelander) Helgi and Finnbogi to Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland). The expedition is racked by mistrust and murder.
1011 C.E
Frøydis Eiriksdottir, having murdered Helgi and Finnbogi's crew, returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) in early summer with the remaining members of the expedition.
1000 C.E - 1011 C.E ?
Kluskap (Kaqtukwow) met with the Norrnn (Norse) in Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland), and established a friendship. After Kluskap (Kaqtukwow) returned to his home he never heard from the Norse he has met, because the Betoukuag (Beothuk) had killed them.
1347 C.E
The Norrnn (Norse) stop coming to Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland).
--------------------------------
En Ferro Veritas,
Keith
One thing--Vikings landed in the new world in the 900s AD. The natives had stone axes, stone tipped spears and arrows. The 'TOMAHAWKS' as you refer to them did not exist yet. The Americans wanted the metal weapons (think of the arms race!) the Vikings had, and the vikings wer quite interested in the stone axe heads because they had a legend associated with the stone axe heads (which involved Storm-go Thor and "thunderstones")
Also, the Francisca (Frankish axe) is much the dimensions of the modern 'hawk, and other viking axes from finds are much the dimensions of a tomahawk.
For other accfepted accounts of the meeting of Scandinavian and American, you might read:
The Vinland Sagas by Snorri Sturlsson
Vikings: The North Atlantic Saga by Smithsonian.
There's some interesting stuff about the meetings and dealings between these two magnificent cultures.
Czech out this webpage about the Micmaq culture an their histories deal with the coming of the Norse...
http://www.mikmaq.com/net/history/1ce-1500ce.html
For those who cannot link directly...
----------------------
986 C.E
Íslendingur (Icelander) trader Bjarni Herjolfsson and his crew are driven off course by bad weather on their way from Ísland (Iceland) to meet Bjarni's father at the new Norrnn (Norse) colony in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). While they are lost off course, they sight Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland). They don't go ashore while they are lost. Eventually they ride a southwest wind back to the Eastern Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) settlement at Herjolfsnes (Ikigait).
1001 C.E - 1002 C.E
Bjarni Herjolfsson returns to his home in Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland). Leif Eiriksson buys Bjarni Herjolfsson's ship and hires a crew of 35 men. Leif Eiriksson sails west and discovers Helluland (Baffin Island), Markland (Labrador) and Vinland (Newfoundland). Leif Eiriksson stays the winter in Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1002 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson, Leif Eiriksson's brother, learns of Leif's exploits and sails with a crew to Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland) and spends the winter there in peace.
1003 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson explores the Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) west coast.
Thorvald Eiriksson returns and spends another winter at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1004 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson ventures through other parts of Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) and is killed by an arrow during an exchange with the Betoukuag (Beothuk).
Thorvald Eiriksson's crew returns and winters at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1005 C.E
Thorvald Eiriksson's crew returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) with the news of his death.
Thorstein Eiriksson, Thorvald Eiriksson's brother, sets out for Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) to retrieve the body of his brother. However foul weather prevents him from making much progress all summer and he returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland).
1006 C.E
Þorfinn Karlsefni, a wealthy Norrnn (Norse), leads a colonizing expedition to Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland) with three ships, 160 men (some with their wives) and a bull, along with other livestock. Leif Eiriksson agrees to lend Þorfinn Karlsefni his houses at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland). The expedition spends a peaceful winter at Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland).
1007 C.E
Gudrid Thorbjarnardottir, wife of Þhorfinn Eiriksson, gives birth to Snorri Þorfinnsson. Snorri Þorfinnsson is thus the first known European to be born in North America. The Norrnn (Norse) colonists first meet and trade with the Aboriginals.
1008 C.E
A Betoukuag (Beothuk) is killed while trying to steal weapons from Thorfinn Eiriksson. A battle with the Betoukuag (Beothuk) later ensues.
1009 C.E
The Þorfinn Karlsefni expedition returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) where they spend the winter.
1010 C.E
Frøydis Eiriksdottir, sister of Leif Eiriksson, and a crew mount a joint expedition with Íslendingur (Icelander) Helgi and Finnbogi to Leifsbudir (L'Anse aux Meadows, Newfoundland). The expedition is racked by mistrust and murder.
1011 C.E
Frøydis Eiriksdottir, having murdered Helgi and Finnbogi's crew, returns to Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland) in early summer with the remaining members of the expedition.
1000 C.E - 1011 C.E ?
Kluskap (Kaqtukwow) met with the Norrnn (Norse) in Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland), and established a friendship. After Kluskap (Kaqtukwow) returned to his home he never heard from the Norse he has met, because the Betoukuag (Beothuk) had killed them.
1347 C.E
The Norrnn (Norse) stop coming to Ktaqmkuk (Newfoundland).
--------------------------------
En Ferro Veritas,
Keith
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 56
Hello from a newbie to your forums. I've enjoyed reading your exchanges. On the subject of Khukuri design, I'd like to share this one (26 years old) by Jody Samson. Perhaps you have seen this one or another like it. I actually don't know if there's another like it... I'm only guessing that, since this one's got "#8" engraved on the blade.
<P>
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/samson/kukri01.jpg"><br>
Overall length: 19 3/8".. polished, hollow-ground
blade is 5/16" thick, handle is Ivory Micarta w/brass
and black micarta spacers.
<P>
And <a href="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/samson/"><b>HERE</b></a> are more pics of the same knife. My pictures are pretty sad, the knife looks soooo much better.
John
<P>
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/samson/kukri01.jpg"><br>
Overall length: 19 3/8".. polished, hollow-ground
blade is 5/16" thick, handle is Ivory Micarta w/brass
and black micarta spacers.
<P>
And <a href="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/samson/"><b>HERE</b></a> are more pics of the same knife. My pictures are pretty sad, the knife looks soooo much better.
John
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,437
For sharin' with us @ the Cantina.
Interesting design, looks a bit light-weight with the hollow grind.
Some might call this a Khuk, but we here in the Cantina might class that as a khuk-style knife or khuk-like object. Here's what makes a khuk a khuk:
Cho: that weird little cut out where the edge of the blade meets the hilt. Traditional on all Khuks from Nepal.
Sword of Shiva (optional): either a line or a sword-shaped etch/cut that runs from the habaki (collar on hilt)along the spine of the khuk. Most HI SoSh run about tot he bend of the blade, but older designs may have a longer SoSh, or none at all.
Also, the hollow grind is not a 'chopping' edge geometry, so, I be that knife you've go there is more of a slicer. Most HI Khuks have a flat grind or a convex grind (hollow is a concave grind).
Pretty spiffy lookin, tho. Like theose brass and abber colored fittings!
Keiith
En Ferro Veritas
Interesting design, looks a bit light-weight with the hollow grind.
Some might call this a Khuk, but we here in the Cantina might class that as a khuk-style knife or khuk-like object. Here's what makes a khuk a khuk:
Cho: that weird little cut out where the edge of the blade meets the hilt. Traditional on all Khuks from Nepal.
Sword of Shiva (optional): either a line or a sword-shaped etch/cut that runs from the habaki (collar on hilt)along the spine of the khuk. Most HI SoSh run about tot he bend of the blade, but older designs may have a longer SoSh, or none at all.
Also, the hollow grind is not a 'chopping' edge geometry, so, I be that knife you've go there is more of a slicer. Most HI Khuks have a flat grind or a convex grind (hollow is a concave grind).
Pretty spiffy lookin, tho. Like theose brass and abber colored fittings!
Keiith
En Ferro Veritas
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 56
Hi Keiith,
I hope you'll excuse my ignorance of the lexicon. I was refering to Khukuri "design" and I meant "representation". I'm the second owner of this knife, and I bought it the same year it was made. I was told it was called a khukuri, and I suspect that Jody Samson was inspired by Khukris. Truth be told, I've always refered to it as a "Headwhacker".
This weighs 2.1 lbs. Perhaps that's light-weight. I'm 6ft tall, about 220 lbs and fit... and this feels plenty "heavy" to me. The back or spine (again, please excuse my ignorance if those terms don't relate to Khukuris) is 5/16" thick. It's beefy. The "hollow-grind" is not to the edge... the edge is chisle ground and consistent at 2.4mm. I'm only guessing that besides making it look nice, the hollow grinding has removed weight from the blade to balance this piece out. For hacking, I wouldn't want this to be any more blade-heavy than it is. I would definitely choose some other instrument for slicing... especially if I had a lot of slicing to do.
The handle or grip has a very comfortable palm-swell and there's sufficient expansion at the pommel to keep this in my hand if I had to get crazy with it. This knife is stylized.. and since Jody Samson is an artist/designer/craftsman (he designed the Conan Sword for the movie), he has taken a bit of liberty here.. or artistic license. Samson also worked with the legendary John Nelson Cooper, which makes him double okay in my book.
I appreciate your comments and explanation of the terminology, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! And... I welcome any and all comments. I'm not offering this knife for sale here, but I am considering offering it soon... in the Exchange forum.
Thanks!
John
I hope you'll excuse my ignorance of the lexicon. I was refering to Khukuri "design" and I meant "representation". I'm the second owner of this knife, and I bought it the same year it was made. I was told it was called a khukuri, and I suspect that Jody Samson was inspired by Khukris. Truth be told, I've always refered to it as a "Headwhacker".
This weighs 2.1 lbs. Perhaps that's light-weight. I'm 6ft tall, about 220 lbs and fit... and this feels plenty "heavy" to me. The back or spine (again, please excuse my ignorance if those terms don't relate to Khukuris) is 5/16" thick. It's beefy. The "hollow-grind" is not to the edge... the edge is chisle ground and consistent at 2.4mm. I'm only guessing that besides making it look nice, the hollow grinding has removed weight from the blade to balance this piece out. For hacking, I wouldn't want this to be any more blade-heavy than it is. I would definitely choose some other instrument for slicing... especially if I had a lot of slicing to do.
The handle or grip has a very comfortable palm-swell and there's sufficient expansion at the pommel to keep this in my hand if I had to get crazy with it. This knife is stylized.. and since Jody Samson is an artist/designer/craftsman (he designed the Conan Sword for the movie), he has taken a bit of liberty here.. or artistic license. Samson also worked with the legendary John Nelson Cooper, which makes him double okay in my book.
I appreciate your comments and explanation of the terminology, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! And... I welcome any and all comments. I'm not offering this knife for sale here, but I am considering offering it soon... in the Exchange forum.
Thanks!
John
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,437
Thanks for going over the specs. Sounds pretty good in the weight category, and I think that the pic and the grind make it look thinner than it really is.
I'm about 6'3" 225, and I have an 18" Ang Khola that weighs in at 2 lbs. It is the right weight for me.
Fancy to have a piece from such a well-known designer!
Keith
En Ferro Veritas
I'm about 6'3" 225, and I have an 18" Ang Khola that weighs in at 2 lbs. It is the right weight for me.
Fancy to have a piece from such a well-known designer!
Keith
En Ferro Veritas
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 56
Hi Keith, Sorry if I mispelled your name last time (or this time), I copied how you spelled it on your first reply to my post. So... I'm still not sure which way is correct... since you may have made a typo either time.... And, since I'm on this reply page, I ain't going back to review your other postings. Is it "Keith" or "Keiith"? I wondered about "Keiith", but I thought maybe it's got something to do with the Viking ship... or some Scandinavian origin.
My name is John P. Jones, and you're welcome to spell it anyway you'd like.
I don't know about Ang Kholas, but I'd like to see yours, if you've got a picture... or perhaps you might link me to a pic on the net.
Your Ang Khola and my knife share similar length to weight ratios, but I'm guessing they're two completely different animals.
At risk of sounding like Ron Popeil, do you slice, chop, dice or grate with yours???
Thanks!
John
My name is John P. Jones, and you're welcome to spell it anyway you'd like.
I don't know about Ang Kholas, but I'd like to see yours, if you've got a picture... or perhaps you might link me to a pic on the net.
Your Ang Khola and my knife share similar length to weight ratios, but I'm guessing they're two completely different animals.
At risk of sounding like Ron Popeil, do you slice, chop, dice or grate with yours???
Thanks!
John
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,437
Hi, John: Keith is the correct spelling. It is an old Gaelic name meaning "woods" or "forest," and is related to other gaelic names like Heath or Heather, which means 'plains' or 'open grasslands'.
Is the P for Paul? You're not the famed English bassist of Led Zeppelin, are you? John Paul Jones? ;-)
Ang Khola - I have series of pics for you to czech out in this thread, about halfway down:
Threadname:A look into the Sarki's art...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206873&pagenumber=3
The black (deeeeep blued) khuk with the gold gilding is my 18" Ang Khola, or AK to the forumites(pics #3 & #6). The other khuk pics show my reconstruction of a YCS sheath to make it a lefty sheath.
<do you slice, chop, dice or grate>--<it is a chopper. I cut coins, leather, wood, rawhide with it.
Keith
En Ferro Veritas
Is the P for Paul? You're not the famed English bassist of Led Zeppelin, are you? John Paul Jones? ;-)
Ang Khola - I have series of pics for you to czech out in this thread, about halfway down:
Threadname:A look into the Sarki's art...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206873&pagenumber=3
The black (deeeeep blued) khuk with the gold gilding is my 18" Ang Khola, or AK to the forumites(pics #3 & #6). The other khuk pics show my reconstruction of a YCS sheath to make it a lefty sheath.
<do you slice, chop, dice or grate>--<it is a chopper. I cut coins, leather, wood, rawhide with it.
Keith
En Ferro Veritas
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Messages
- 140
iI KNOW THAT SMARTY, THIS WAS AN EXAMPLE OF BIGGER NOT BEING BETTER ALL THE TIME, THE ACTUAL SCENE WAS FROM AN OLD MOVE I THINK IT HAD KIRK DOUGLAS IN IT AND WAS CALLED IF I REMEMBER RIGHT THE VIKINGS.
ANYWAY IF YOU WANT TO BE POLITICLY CORRECT NO ONE ACTUALY KNOWS FOR SURE IF AND WHEN THE VIKINGS EVER ACTUALY REACHED AMERICA FOR SURE.
ANYWAY IF YOU WANT TO BE POLITICLY CORRECT NO ONE ACTUALY KNOWS FOR SURE IF AND WHEN THE VIKINGS EVER ACTUALY REACHED AMERICA FOR SURE.
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Messages
- 140
PERSONALY I THINK ITS REAL UGLY LOOKIN, INTERESTIN BUT UGLY. ALTHOUGH EACH TO HIS OWN. REGARDS GHORKA ALSO THANKS FOR SHOWIN IT HERE MATE IT WAS INTERESTIN, I AM A NEWBIE MYSELF AND HAVE ONLY SIX HI KHUKS AND 5 OTHERS. WISH I COULD AFFORD MORE ????, WONDER IF THE MISSUS WOULD MISS THE WASHER IF I CASHED IT OUT HMMMMM?????
ALSO THANKS FOR SHOWIN IT HERE MATE IT WAS INTERESTIN, I AM A NEWBIE MYSELF AND HAVE ONLY SIX HI KHUKS AND 5 OTHERS. WISH I COULD AFFORD MORE ????, WONDER IF THE MISSUS WOULD MISS THE WASHER IF I CASHED IT OUT HMMMMM?????
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 56
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the links to the pics and information. Nice knife!!!
The ugly knife comment must have refered to my knife, 'cause yours looked pretty nice. And if it did, I'll just say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"..... Also, even a beautiful knife may appear uuuuugly, depending upon which end you're on. I've got a few "ugly" scars that have memorialized that thought.
Peace,
John
Thanks for the links to the pics and information. Nice knife!!!
The ugly knife comment must have refered to my knife, 'cause yours looked pretty nice. And if it did, I'll just say that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"..... Also, even a beautiful knife may appear uuuuugly, depending upon which end you're on. I've got a few "ugly" scars that have memorialized that thought.
Peace,
John
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
Interesting stuff and thanks.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 1999
- Messages
- 8,911
Skull:
the Sampson piece reminds me of the way I feel about Streisand's songs - I don't care for the style, but the level of technical achievement is absolutely magnificent!
On this forum it's kind of like putting Picasso's Guernica in among a display of Rembrandts and Reubens. Disturbing and unexpected, and yet still there's something about it.
Thank you for posting it for our viewing.
the Sampson piece reminds me of the way I feel about Streisand's songs - I don't care for the style, but the level of technical achievement is absolutely magnificent!
On this forum it's kind of like putting Picasso's Guernica in among a display of Rembrandts and Reubens. Disturbing and unexpected, and yet still there's something about it.
Thank you for posting it for our viewing.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 56
Thank you Rusty!
And I love the Streisand analogy .... you can dislike her (and her music), but you've got to appreciate that she's (arguably) the best.
I certainly wasn't trying to taint the "purity" of the forum... I just thought this was a great thread... "..Khukuri Designs - thoughts?" ... because it's quite interesting to see the influence the khukuri may have had in designs by various makers.
I saw (earlier in this thread) the "Blackjack Marauder", a "Jungle Tactical Gurkha", the Ray Beers "Folding Khukuri", and a knife by "Aitor".
Here's another which (to me) has hints of Khukuri.. but also (possibly) Bolo and (definitely) Bowie. I appreciate your comments, perhaps you can tell me if I've stretched it a bit too far here. Thank you!
John
<br>
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/buster/buster01.jpg"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/buster/buster04.jpg"><br>
<br>
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~jpj100/buster/buster07.jpg">
