Kitchenwares & Chef Tools

Mete,

I too wash the blades by hand. I did not select the Santuko because of current fad, but because in examining shapes I felt it would be the best choice. I couldn't really say what my 'style' of cooking is, though I do use a wok frequently. The Santuko had the slight outward curve to the edge profile- allowing the rocking on vegitables. As a lot of time is spent preparing other foods than meat, I thought a straight point and straight edge a liability.

I've written Mesermeister asking them more about their steel.


munk
 
Another search through Chefdepot (which shows how poor a website it is) for Messermeister ,I find the alloy 50CrMoV15 (for european type knives ?) and AUS8 for "asian precision" knives .Some made in Germany, some made in Japan ??
 
0CrMoV15
that's what I found- I didn't know if that was your AUSB or not. The brochure I have says the Meridian elite is made from High Carbon moly vand steel. Until I find out otherwise, I'll believe it was made in Germany- it says the sharpest out of Germany.

It also says this steel offers very good edge retention and resiliency and ease of sharpening.
as for Chefs depot web site- yes, it is confusing, though hardly the worst on the web.

munk
 
Mete-

You said the kind of knife is best directed to the style of cooking= European or Oriental. I'm not sure I buy that. There is truth there- but only a generality, and as a hard and fast rule I think it incorrect. Also, I'm not sure that the final preparation of a steel is not at least as important as what steel is being used. So when you say steel a" is better than steel b", I don't believe that either. Oh, one more thing, I think different steels do better than one another in different applications.

I mean this with respect.


munk
 
Hey- just checked the Messermeister catalogue- Asian Precisian is a stamped steel- AUS8 , not to be confused with the forged steel of Meridian Elite. 0CrMoV15



munk
 
50CrMoV15 is a german steel, Aus8 is a japanese steel....I meant knife type as a generality ,there are similarities between the two with some special types ,For example some japanese knifes have a chisel grind, handy for slicing very thin. Others are similar, not all that much difference between european chefs knife and a santuko.....Steel choice and heat treatment are both important.....Can't find composition of the german steel. The catolog suggests maybe some of Messermeister knifes are german and some japanese. Maybe the germans can't grind things like a santuko. LOL LOL
 
I have a Meridian Elite Santuko made in Germany from the forged high carbon CroMo Vandium you mentioned. The chefdepot web site clearly says this about Meridian. The Asian Precisian line is stamped. It looks like Messer has 2 or three stamped steel lines.

Mete- I don't know how old you are, but this is your specialty- do you think any of the sophistication and talent in pre WWll Solingen Germany are left today? I understood H&K to be ahead of the world in certain areas of metalurgy- along with Ruger, believe it or not.


munk
 
The composition of 50CrMoV15 is .55% C,15% Cr, .8% Mo, .2% V which I think is rather low for the application. AUS8 has higher carbon......BTW please spell it METALLURGY. ....I'm an old timer but knives made pre WWII involved much hand work therefore much skill.Knives and other things today are high tech, made with CNC machines ,and everything else is computer controlled so it's a different story. Starting in the 1960s labor costs began rising greatly so there was an effort to go more with machines . It's more so today that's why so much is made in China where the labor costs are MUCH lower......Europe is being bogged down with socialism where as many as 1 in 3 are getting public funds and there is less and less innovation......Does H&K make good stuff ? Absolutely, that's why I have some !!!!
 
BTW please spell it METALLURGY>> Mete

If I had either consistant spelling or consistance error I would do that. As it is, such matters are far down on list of importance.

Mete, I believe Messermeister knew what it was doing in choosing which steel to forge and which to stamp. Both Chef2 and Firkin thought well of messermeister's Santuko; that's good enough for me at present.


munk
 
munk said:
If I had either consistant spelling or consistance error I would do that....Santuko...
Click to expand...

That one has been pretty consistent. The Romaji for it is Santoku. Santuko is a common misspelling...not totally sure why.
 
I asked Chef2 when i spoke with him on the phone and he said either way- Santoku- probably a pase where the bad spelling muscled it's way into acceptance.

Talking to Mete about Carbon percentages in steel reminds me some of the high end boys in stereos. I have a very decent stereo. I'm sure if one spent another 4 thousand you could improve upon it- I just don't know how much I'd actually notice.

And I still can't get accept a 'this is best' answer when it comes to steel- because so much depends upon how it was forged and the final form fitting the intended function.

Still learning.



munk
 
Part of it is experience. When it comes to cutting tools there is always the choice to make - high edge retention /harder to sharpen vs lower edge retention/easy to sharpen. Some of my grandfather's knives were VERY soft but easy to sharpen, not my choice. So there is only "best" for you with a certain type of blade !! Would I like a kitchen knife out of S30V ? YES because I have a Sebenza and my experiece with it tells me this is the best stainless knife steel on the market.S30V would suit me for any kitchen knife.
 
Alright guys, let's put it this way. You have no kitchen knives. You have $200 to spend. How do you spend it?

Good news. You won $200 in the weekly poker game. Now you have $400 to spend on kitchen knives. How do you spend it?
 
Welcome tro the Forums Chef2 :).., fun to read the kitchen knife stuff..., hope you enjoy it here....
 
Alright guys, let's put it this way. You have no kitchen knives. You have $200 to spend. How do you spend it?

Good news. You won $200 in the weekly poker game. Now you have $400 to spend on kitchen knives. How do you spend it?>>>>>>>>>>>>
GRMike


I kick in another 150.00 and get a Ruger 480


munk
 
I'd identify the knives I needed most- a parer, a carving knife, a meat knife, perhaps a pure vegitable cutting knife like a chinese cleaver, and I'd read.
With how little I know now, I think I'd like to try different brands- well respected ones. I would go for high carbon- not stainless steel.

For instance, I could easily be interested in a Shun- though that would use 100 of the 400.

When I got the Santuko- I envisioned vegies and meat. I think I did pretty good. I also think my Chinese heavy cleaver is going to be a surprise entry- costing 42 but with a hard edge. ( now, if it don't break)

If I got all one brand I could get a price break on a small set, but I'd never know what the competition did.

Chances are, if I'd choosed current respected brands, I'd be moderately happy with all.

munk
 
OK Mete, I wrote Messermeister, and this is what I got:

Our steel is 41/16 Krupp High Carbon, Moly, Vanadium, Chromium

Carbon 55% for toughness
Moly 15% for elasticity
Vanadium 15% for strength
Chromium 15% for corrosion resistance

(If I've misspelled anything it is my fault, not messer's)

Here's a shocker: Rockwell hardness of 56

Heck. That'll be easy to sharpen.


munk
 
Munk you probably need to put a decimal point in front of those percentages. What you list is 100% already without any Iron. I doubt that the carbide alloy from those percentages would be easy to sharpen, tough or even make a blade from.
 
If your budget is tight you can get a lot of value from a Spyderco Santoku K08PBK. This has an ergonomic handle and is made with MBS-26 alloy at around 58-60 RC. This compares well with VG-10 and takes an extremely fine edge. MAC knives also makes models with premium alloys up in that hardness range.
 
Shgeo- I don't need to add any decimals, as I've only relayed what Messermeister stated to me.

But 55% seemed very strange- though it does make a 100 with the other 45.

Feel free to add any decimals where you think they should be.

write an email to munk@ttc-cmc.net and I'll forward their response to you.


munk
 
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