Kizer Gemini Quality control issue or design flaw?? possible fixes

[bld522]

Kizer's service and support is admittedly concerning. I continue to post the need for them to up their game. As far as I'm concerned, Kizer really won't be ready for prime time until they establish full Stateside service and support. It's simply not realistic to assume that people have the ability to repair their own Kizer knives. Worse still, disassembling a Kizer knife voids the warranty. Sending you parts and asking you to fix your own knife while simultaneously voiding your warranty is not a solution as far as I'm concerned.

 

[stkh22]

Kizer's service and support is admittedly concerning. I continue to post the need for them to up their game in their subforum. As far as I'm concerned, Kizer really won't be ready for prime time until they establish full Stateside service and support. It's simply not realistic to assume that people have the ability to repair their own Kizer knives. Worse still, disassembling a Kizer knife voids the warranty. Looks a Catch-22 to me.

Agreed, I was shocked when they asked me if I could do the repairs on my own and if it was OK. I have no qualms with installing the new pivot assembly but my concern was if I can not disassemble the knife and their warranty states any tampering or dis-assembly voids warranty that kind of puts the owner in a tough spot. I guess I am somewhat lucky enough that I was able to get the knife apart, cleaned up and back together in a working matter. Like I said before, I really do like this knife. It kicked my beloved ZT 0770cf which I carry most of the time and my zt 0808 out of my pocket. It has all the right stuff to be a great knife, Kizer just needs to strive to be better and work on their customer service/warranty alot more.

 

[bld522]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I absolutely love my Gemini. But I know I don't have the skill to fix it myself. If something does go wrong, hopefully Kizer will offer to trade it out entirely. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'll do.

Anyway, no reason to go looking for trouble until trouble comes looking for me. Hope everything continues to work out for you.

 

[UAB89]

Agreed, I was shocked when they asked me if I could do the repairs on my own and if it was OK. I have no qualms with installing the new pivot assembly but my concern was if I can not disassemble the knife and their warranty states any tampering or dis-assembly voids warranty that kind of puts the owner in a tough spot. I guess I am somewhat lucky enough that I was able to get the knife apart, cleaned up and back together in a working matter. Like I said before, I really do like this knife. It kicked my beloved ZT 0770cf which I carry most of the time and my zt 0808 out of my pocket. It has all the right stuff to be a great knife, Kizer just needs to strive to be better and work on their customer service/warranty alot more.

I agree after fixing my pivot my knife is one of the smoothest I own and it is extremely smooth for the money.. However problems like this are something that can't happen especially when your trying to build good reputation.. And I hope the pivot problem is only a small % of the first batch and that problem is resolved.. And yeah I feel bad for people that have to return their knives for work.. Your talking about over 2 months just in transportation time..

 

[Nap]

I, too, worry about what will happen if and when my Gemini needs servicing. Living in Europe, I'm actually slightly more comfortable with them sending me parts than making me put it on the boat back, destined for fates unknown. Nothing against China, don't get me wrong—the laptop I'm typing this on was manufactured and shipped from there, but when it breaks, I'm glad that there are techs in town to repair it at my house, or if it has to go to a service center, it's tracked and insured to and from Prague via next-day air. To not have a telephone number I can call and speak to someone about my problem immediately, and to have e-mail sent into a black hole, would make me think twice before deciding that it was worth contacting them.

 

[bld522]

To not have a telephone number I can call and speak to someone about my problem immediately, and to have e-mail sent into a black hole, would make me think twice before deciding that it was worth contacting them . . .

. . . or continuing to buy their products. At this point, I think I'm going to apply the brakes and wait to see if they're really going to be in it for the long haul. I know what they have to do to demonstrate that, you know what they have to do to demonstrate that, and they know what they have to do to demonstrate that. Only question is whether they're going to do it.

 

[RamZar]

I'm not concerned about a U.S. service center. Spyderco ships their Taichung made knives to Taiwan for service with associated multiple weeks delays.

What I'm concerned about is a pattern of delayed resolution to customer issues.

Right now, I don't know if there's an overall QC issue at all, in and of itself or related to rapid expansion.

 

[stkh22]

So I have been playing email tag with Joyce from Kizer, she has been the only person that consistently responds to any of my emails. The email address I'm replying to is: kizer.cutlery@gmail.com She has just confirmed that she will be sending out a entire screw set to me, it will take 15-20 days to arrive and that the engineer she spoke to said I should try using a "screwdriver" to remove my pivot. There is definitely a language barrier here, but I think they mean torx driver. Anyhow at least this thread will be around to assist other Gemini owners with the current problems that the few users that are speaking up about it have.

Now if Kizer can arrange for US Dealers to warranty and exchange defective products, that would really be a big game changer for Kizer and the industry. I don't see why that can't be done esp with the larger online retailers that have physical store fronts. Most require owners to contact the Manufacture for defects and warranty issues even on regular in stock items which I think is a tad bit in the stone age.

For the money this knife isn't bad but it aint' great either. $170 gets you a ZT 0450 or a ZT 0808. Both of which you can pick up gently used and sometimes tastefully pimped in the market place with cash to spare. Both are TI frame-lock flippers using ball bearings, come with a 3.25" S35VN blade and steel lock bar insert. Add that they are made in the USA and we all know KAI has superb customer service dept. Minus the TI pocket clip, hardware (screws, pivot, back-spacer), and ceramic bearings on the Gemini, I would gladly trade that in and buy the ZT over the Kizer just for the warranty/customer service alone. So simply put $170 isn't that great of a deal due to what a owner may have to deal with if a problem came up. Luckily I have a ZT 0808 already which actually has smoother action on NON ceramic bearings.

Maybe they can start making more simple/classy designs with other blade shapes like a modified sheepsfoot (zt 0770), wharnie , and reverse tanto (random leek) in the same or similar specs as the Gemini. That would defiantly raise interest levels especially mine. In the meantime, I really do hope Kizer reads this, and works harder to adjust and change their ways.

 

[bld522]

What I'm concerned about is a pattern of delayed resolution to customer issues.

Right now, I don't know if there's an overall QC issue at all, in and of itself or related to rapid expansion.

Put those things together and what do they add up to? Uncertainty. And uncertainty is something no manufacturer wants to instill in its customers, especially a manufacturer that's trying to establish itself.

To my way of thinking, Kizer needs to get out in front of this or it's going to come back to haunt them. They need to stop sending parts to their customers and asking them to void their warranties by trying to fix their knives themselves. They need to establish a toll-free number that their customers can call when problems arise and a US address that their customers can send their knives to for warranty repair. And they need to do these things RIGHT NOW!!!

 

[Nap]

. . . or continuing to buy their products. At this point, I think I'm going to apply the brakes and wait to see if they're really going to be in it for the long haul. I know what they have to do to demonstrate that, you know what they have to do to demonstrate that, and they know what they have to do to demonstrate that. Only question is whether they're going to do it.

Oh, absolutely. While I'm still in love with my Gemini, though, I wasn't really planning on buying another Kizer right away, and don't actually care for most of their designs. The Intrepid is probably the most compelling, but I like my Gemini well enough that I don't need its clip-point big brother right away. I can definitely wait to see how their customer service situation plays out.

 

[Hackenslash]

I'm a little annoyed about this and I'm the OKFB (Original Kizer Fan Boy).

It seems that Kizer is all too willing to spam up the forums with new product releases but can't find the time to engage their concerned consumer base in constructive dialogue.

It decreases my faith significantly that a possible warranty situation would be handled to my satisfaction, and that becomes a greater concern as knives breach the $200 price point.

C'mon Kizer, I think all of us knife knuts would feel quite forgiving about growing pains due to an overly-ambitious production schedule, and by this point you should've probably had something to say. As the manufacturer, you're really kind of leaving your designer collaborators out in the cold. Most are regular contributors to these fora, but aren't in a good position to address what appears to be production QC flaws. How about a simple "we're looking into this problem" or an update on the Stateside warranty center that's been kicking around the nether webs for more than a year?

I'm going to go and start flipping my Gemini HARD,

 

[UAB89]

I'm a little annoyed about this and I'm the OKFB (Original Kizer Fan Boy).

It seems that Kizer is all too willing to spam up the forums with new product releases but can't find the time to engage their concerned consumer base in constructive dialogue.

It decreases my faith significantly that a possible warranty situation would be handled to my satisfaction, and that becomes a greater concern as knives breach the $200 price point.

C'mon Kizer, I think all of us knife knuts would feel quite forgiving about growing pains due to an overly-ambitious production schedule, and by this point you should've probably had something to say. As the manufacturer, you're really kind of leaving your designer collaborators out in the cold. Most are regular contributors to these fora, but aren't in a good position to address what appears to be production QC flaws. How about a simple "we're looking into this problem" or an update on the Stateside warranty center that's been kicking around the nether webs for more than a year?

I'm going to go and start flipping my Gemini HARD,

I completely agree with you!
Haha and state side warranty service? Ha I think that's one of their biggest problems so after My knife started having issues I started sending emails (that's a side problem how are you supposed to contact them.. Every site you look at their is at least 2 or 3 different emails for the same service)

After 4 days Joyce with Kizer finally contacted me and told me that their state side warranty people would contact me well they did and his response was "let me see what I can do and I will get back with you".. Guess what never herd back from him.. After several days and emails trying to contact them again and again Joyce finally wrote me back and it was not until Novermber 10th that they finally "sent" the pivot.. That's 13 days from the time I contacted them initially(2x the length of time I had owned the knife)..

I understand that the company is in China and are 13 hrs ahead and their is a large language barrier but come on.. That's terrible.. It's the 28th today 31 days after initially contacting them and I still have not received a pivot..

 

[UAB89]

So this came in the mail today!
I'm gonna try to put it together tonight when I get some free time and will take some pics when I do

 

[AF]

I've recently discovered Kizer and Reate. I've only seen pictures but thus far I'm unconvinced that my dollars would be well spent at these companies rather than Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT, Kershaw, etc.
Manufacturing a (normally) high quality product does not make a high quality company, IMO.

 

[UAB89]

I've recently discovered Kizer and Reate. I've only seen pictures but thus far I'm unconvinced that my dollars would be well spent at these companies rather than Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT, Kershaw, etc.
Manufacturing a (normally) high quality product does not make a high quality company, IMO.

Yep I don't blame you! I can't speak for Reate(i haven't herd much negative about them) but with the current quality control issues and customer service if I were you I had to do it again I would have put that money towards something like a zt808

Don't get me wrong I really like my Kizer Gemini but with their current quality control issues I will at least make sure they resolve the issues they are currently having before I buy anything else

 

[UAB89]

So that was def muuuuch more difficult to take apart and put back together using those new parts than I anticipated.. I messed with that thing for hours last night trying to get the knife back like it was perfectly centered and still couldn't get it centered.. It's not rubbing the scales but it's enough that it bugs me some.

So as for the new parts.. For one the new pivot they sent is slightly longer! And actually goes into the d-pivot and I believe that may be part of the reason I could not get it centered it will not allow you to tighten down the pivot enough to get it centered again ..

Also as you will see in the pictures the stop pin is much longer I'm thinking that may help prevent the pivot from moving when disengaging the lock bar because before it was not long enough to be fully against both sides of the titanium scales..

The external screws near the pocket clip I should have never touched because the new ones they sent had so much a anodizing on them or whatever they colored them with that it would not easily fit into the countersunk screw hole thus I pretty much stripped all of them..

 

[Kizer Cutlery]

Hi, All:

I'll keep this short as I'll be returning to post more later.

First I apologize for the absence as we are getting used to the growth and trying to not spread ourselves too thin, we will do a better job monitoring the progress of this forum and your posts.

Second I know those with issues do not want to wait at all, and I have some news. We just got our US based warranty center set up. It's in San Bernadino county, CA and the plan is for it to be operational by the end of the year. Once we get this underway I believe the speed for a lot of these issues resolution will be faster.

I will come back with more information. I will review the posts and the messages we've received and strive to answer them as quickly and as completely as we can.

Thank you for hanging in there with us.

Kizer.

 

[RamZar]

This is good news Kizer.

Hopefully, customer concerns are answered in a timely manner as well as the parts arriving much sooner.

Finally, better QC even if there are delays in introducing a product.

 

[The Burgh]

Yes, good news to have a US service facility.

Open it with someone skilled in your knives and able to communicate with customers clearly and directly. Have someone on staff to answer phones/emails and do FOLLOW-UP (the latter being the weakest link in any customer service). Have parts and all appropriate tools on site which your technician can use to swap parts out/in so that warranties are preserved. Then repeatedly publish a single set of phone number(s) and email addresses ONLY when you are ready to fulfill requests and answer questions.

As I wrote above, good to hear of the US location. Please execute properly.

P.S. I have 3 Kizers.

 

[Hackenslash]

Thanks Kizer!