Kizer Gemini Quality control issue or design flaw?? possible fixes

I guess I'm lucky that I've never had issues with my Kizers, including an early Gemini. If there's indeed an inherent flaw with the Gemini pivot, this should probably warrant the equivalent of a "recall" and retrofit for all Gemini owners. Let's hope that Kizer can get the service center up and running with good contact info. It's a shame to see them releasing so many terrific designs but have it soured by support complaints.

Again, from personal experience, I've had success with probably the largest collection of Kizers of anyone on this forum. My only real problem so far has been a weak detent on a Ki401b. That being said, I've yet to have an issue that requires manufacturer support.

I'm still buying Kizers; I have a Vanguard Gemini and Dorado inbound. I think I'll wait and see about any more of the Bladesmith line knives, however. My support expectation for an $80 knife is a little more relaxed than for a $200 knife.
 
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Im in the UK mate. My kizer cost me £145. Too much money for what little help they're offering me for a knife that I can now either have loose frame screws on or the blade so tight it won't open or tight frame screws but a stop pin that's too thin so the blade moves around when locked. Hopefully they'll get their act together.
 
Jeff1976 said:
Im in the UK mate. My kizer cost me £145. Too much money for what little help they're offering me for a knife that I can now either have loose frame screws on or the blade so tight it won't open or tight frame screws but a stop pin that's too thin so the blade moves around when locked. Hopefully they'll get their act together.
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Wow, that sucks for a knife that sold for a little over $80 Stateside. I'm sorry your experience has been so different from other Kizer owners in general. You probably should have sent that knife right back to the retailer. I've had to do that before with Spyderco and Benchmade. Good luck sorting out your bad knife! I hope it gets fixed.
 
Yeah they ain't cheap over here. Just heard back and apparently the " technicist" has said that on that model the frame screws need to be loose next to the pivot for the knife to function. This doesn't sound right to me. All my other knives are completely tightened apart from the pivot screw.
 
I was hoping someone with a bit more knowledge than me can help me out with this. Kizer have just emailed me saying that the model knife I've got, 4430 tanto, needs to have loose frame screws in order to open properly and not just adjustments to the pivot screw. I know I could get them to the right tension and threadlock them but should I really need to do this on a knife that's supposed to be good quality? Anyone from Kizer reading this got anything to say on the matter as it's a nightmare getting a reply.
Thanks
 
Let me try to help you with this. First of all; I agree with your conclusion that apparently the stop pin is a little too short which should not be the case in a perfectly manufactured knife. On the other hand; there are many knife models (not only from Kizer) that have the stop pin resting in milled pockets in the frame and not fixed by any screws at all. The scales at this side of the knife are held together anyway by the pivot screw so the screws of the stop pin are not absolutely necessary for this.
What I would do is fixing the stop pin with one screw firmly tightened and the other screw tightened as far as possible without pinching the blade. To secure this screw I would use a little threat-lock (Lock-tite). The stop pin is not going anywhere anyway because both ends of the pin rest in pockets in the scales.

To your question; "should I really need to do this on a knife that's supposed to be good quality?"; I think it still is a knife of "good quality" even with this small imperfection and if the work-around resolves the "problem" I wouldn't bother trying to get a better fitting stop pin at all. If you are not happy with this situation I would simply return the knife to the shop where you bought it for replacement, repair or refund.... (I believe English law is not that different from general European laws regarding consumer products and consumer rights).
Cheers, Hans
 
Thanks for the advice mate. The only issue I now have is that Kizer sent me a longer stop pin saying the one I had was too short, this new one was too thin though which resulted in a lot of blade play. They told me to change this over myself which of course voids any returns now as the knife has been tampered with in the eyes of the company I bought it from. Now they've said that the stop pin they sent which was the correct length but too thin was not from a production model and but a sample knife and production models all need loose frame screws to work properly.
 
Hi, Jeff1976:

I will be sending you an email to get some more details. I tried to track down some of your communications and saw that you were conversing with Rong Mai regarding this issue, I will try to put everything together and get your issue resolved.

Thank you.

Kizer
 
Kizer Cutlery said:
Hi, sechip:

We have made some changes to the pivot and after stress-testing it, we believe the end result will serve without any issues.

Thank you.

Kizer.
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Thanks for the update, just received mine a couple of days ago and i love it!
 
Hi, Jeff:

Azo will be coordinating his responses to your issue through me (David), and I'll pass along your feedback to him, this way, we will all be getting information on the same platform and hopefully this will smooth any communication issues to resolve the question at hand.

I'll be emailing you once I have a clear line of events and some possible proposals for resolution.

Thank you.

Kizer.
 
Hi, had three emails all in Chinese so I have no idea what has been discussed. Would you like me to screen shot the so you can translate on here for me? Thanks
 
Hi, Jeff:

I've been copied on those emails, they were meant for a separate thread and doesn't yield relevant solutions to the discussion at hand.

I sent you an email with a suggestion of a possible alternative solution for a replacement, please let me know what you think by replying to my email.

If I may ask, you have my email at this point, and you know that you can use the forum to reach me directly, let's take this issue, which I agree need to be fixed, to the email communication without bogging down this thread which is about a different product.

If you feel that you need to come back to the forum again, you can do so at anytime.

Thank you.

Kizer
 
Are these issues resolved in current production, and how can we tell if a knife we get from a retailer is post-fix?

I've been really wanting a Gemini, but don't want a defective one...
 
Kizer Cutlery said:
Hi, sechip:

We have made some changes to the pivot and after stress-testing it, we believe the end result will serve without any issues.

Thank you.

Kizer.
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Who should we contact to order the new pivots for our first gen gemini?
 
Great, I bought one of the newer ones off of this forum between the 1/11/16 and 2/7/16 "quiet period" of this thread. I had seen nothing but good reviews but I had that feeling to stay away from Chinese knives and now this? Great, now I can't even flip it due to my conscience! I can't knowingly sell a knife with a design issue.

NEVER AGAIN
 
coinbuysell said:
Great, I bought one of the newer ones off of this forum between the 1/11/16 and 2/7/16 "quiet period" of this thread. I had seen nothing but good reviews but I had that feeling to stay away from Chinese knives and now this? Great, now I can't even flip it due to my conscience! I can't knowingly sell a knife with a design issue.

NEVER AGAIN
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--snip--
 
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Yeah, I probably went a little too far but it is disheartening to see this right after I finally buy one...never say never, mine seems to be fine.
 
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