Kizer Knives

[marsalla]

that thing has great camera. I use my canon 6d with good results.

 

[ichor]

And if its really just about supporting america then there are only a few select brands who dont have a foot in the global economy.

Exactly. And all this...I hate China and all their products stuff, so I ain't buyin'em ...is childishly uninformed, unrealistic and hypocritical.
Not to mention cutting off your nose to spite your face. ;')

 

[RX-79G]

Be honest man, with nearly everything being made in china do you really think the fate of our economy rests in the hands of a few knife sales? Either way i would probably have an easier time swallowing your post if the same logic and principals were also applied to knives made outside the usa but also outside of china. In other words many of the people constantly on the threads about chinese knives usually dont find their way into threads about shirogorov, custom knife factory etc. and any reservations anyone has about the ethics of supporting businesses in china would also apply to knives made in Russia. And if its really just about supporting america then there are only a few select brands who dont have a foot in the global economy.

I think you've read my posts on this subject before, and you know that I am speaking generally about the trade deficit - luxury goods like knives being one tiny part. Maybe "it doesn't matter", but then, when does it matter?

Are knives so special that they get an exception to being part of foreign trade, or can Brancon's argument about improving the lives of Kizer employees be addressed head on?

 

[ichor]

why are you bloviating.

bloviating...what a wonderful word, which I forget about. LOL

 

[Cadillac86]

Buying Kizer affects the company that provides the steel which is an American company.

I don't see how it's any different for our economy than buying, say, a Canadian Made Chevy, or a Mexican Made Ford. But all those people will tout their "American Car".

 

[RX-79G]

What similar made Chinese knives? And Boker Plus? Are you serious? The quality of Kizer knives far exceeds that of Boker Plus. More fundamentally, why are you bloviating about the quality of a brand you don't have experience with either? You people are absolutely maddening.

"You people." Nice.

I would enjoy reading your personal review on the $100 Boker Federal. Or are you "bloviating" because you've never even handled one?

 

[Cadillac86]

Sanrenmu, Opinel, Mora, Victorinox.

I've owned a lot of basic knives from Buck, Gerber, etc, and they really aren't nearly as nice as the Sanrenmus, for "modern" knives.

"I'm going to yell that people should buy American, but then I'm going to suggest they don't buy American"......Hypocritical much?

 

[brancron]

I would enjoy reading your personal review on the $100 Boker Federal. Or are you "bloviating" because you've never even handled one?

I've never had one. But I have had a Vox F3, an Urban Trapper, an Exskelibur, a Stingray, and a Kwaiken. Which Kizers have you owned, again?

 

[choombak]

Buying Kizer affects the company that provides the steel which is an American company.

I don't see how it's any different for our economy than buying, say, a Canadian Made Chevy, or a Mexican Made Ford. But all those people will tout their "American Car".

Speaking of cars, there is nothing like an American-car (or for that matter <any-country>-car) -- components are sourced from tens (if not hundreds) of countries, that meet the exact specification, tolerance and quality. I doubt if any car company in the world can make this claim of truly being manufactured in a single country.

Okay, back on topic - Kizer does have a few fantastic offerings, and given by the reviews here, I'll be checking one out soon.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I think you've read my posts on this subject before, and you know that I am speaking generally about the trade deficit - luxury goods like knives being one tiny part. Maybe "it doesn't matter", but then, when does it matter?

Are knives so special that they get an exception to being part of foreign trade, or can Brancon's argument about improving the lives of Kizer employees be addressed head on?

actually i dont think knives are special at all except for the feeling i have attached to them. At the end of the day they are a machine made manufactured product just like a lot of stuff. And that is what i think the problem is. People on forums make a big deal about buying american but it seems people only care when it is a hobby they have an emotional investment in. The problem with this is people are only supporting that cause in a single area of their life. And compared to the majority of the goods they consume their knife buying habits account for but a fraction of their overall spending.

So yeah when i see guys tooting the "buy american" horn from a chinese computer, chinese cell phone, wearing a bangladesh sewn t shirt and wearing a US flag hat thats also made in china i tend to wonder how much they actually care about the issue if the only area they consider the country of origin is the one thing they are 1. The closest to emotionally and 2. The thing they consume the least of in dollar amount. If you ask me too many people get on the forum all up in arms over chinese produced knife right after getting back from a trip to wal-mart. Its like if i claim to worry about world hunger and i am constantly overbuying food and its going into the garbage and my only show of support to that cause is donating ten bucks every year to pretend i care about something and making a difference.

 

[RX-79G]

"I'm going to yell that people should buy American, but then I'm going to suggest they don't buy American"......Hypocritical much?

Quote me where I said people should buy American. Read much?

I explained why saying "what about the Kizer employees" is a false paradigm. But I have also said that it is too late for the US in other threads.

 

[RX-79G]

I've never had one. But I have had a Vox F3, an Urban Trapper, an Exskelibur, a Stingray, and a Kwaiken. Which Kizers have you owned, again?

I have owned exactly as many Kizers and you have Boker Federals. Who gets to compare two knives they don't own? You?


I was also referencing some of the excellent quality fake Sebenzas out there. Yes, they shouldn't exist. But their precision is hard to deny. $60.


And I was not throwing Kizer under the bus. I was just pointing out that price point and quality are hard things to nail down with precision. To some people the Kizer might seem like a good deal, other's may see a new off brand offering similar products to a lot of other companies.

 

[RX-79G]

actually i dont think knives are special at all except for the feeling i have attached to them. At the end of the day they are a machine made manufactured product just like a lot of stuff. And that is what i think the problem is. People on forums make a big deal about buying american but it seems people only care when it is a hobby they have an emotional investment in. The problem with this is people are only supporting that cause in a single area of their life. And compared to the majority of the goods they consume their knife buying habits account for but a fraction of their overall spending.

So yeah when i see guys tooting the "buy american" horn from a chinese computer, chinese cell phone, wearing a bangladesh sewn t shirt and wearing a US flag hat thats also made in china i tend to wonder how much they actually care about the issue if the only area they consider the country of origin is the one thing they are 1. The closest to emotionally and 2. The thing they consume the least of in dollar amount. If you ask me too many people get on the forum all up in arms over chinese produced knife right after getting back from a trip to wal-mart. Its like if i claim to worry about world hunger and i am constantly overbuying food and its going into the garbage and my only show of support to that cause is donating ten bucks every year to pretend i care about something and making a difference.

I agree 100%.

I do think that we have to recognize China's value proposition: Decent quality at low prices. If the prices stop being low, then why buy it from an economic competitor and ideological enemy?

 

[brancron]

I have owned exactly as many Kizers as you have Boker Federals. Who gets to compare two knives they don't own? You?

So let me get this straight: I've owned several Boker Plus knives and several Kizers (and have handled many more of each), while you've owned/handled ZERO Kizers, yet you're the one commenting on whether they're worth the money in comparison with Boker Plus (your answer being "no"), while telling me I can't compare the two companies? You're unbelievable.

 

[brancron]

I agree 100%.

I do think that we have to recognize China's value proposition: Decent quality at low prices. If the prices stop being low, then why buy it from an economic competitor and ideological enemy?

What don't you get about the idea that Kizer makes extremely high quality knives that seemingly the vast majority of people who've bought them attest to being ulta-high value considering the materials and the fit and finish? My $176 Flashbang has the quality of a $400 knife at least, in my informed opinion. Is that sinking into your skull?

 

[RX-79G]

So let me get this straight: I've owned several Boker Plus knives and several Kizers (and have handled many more of each), while you've owned/handled ZERO Kizers, yet you're the one commenting on whether they're worth the money in comparison with Boker Plus (your answer being "no"), while telling me I can't compare the two companies? You're unbelievable.

You can compare two companies all you want. But Boker isn't a Chinese manufacturer, and they have their knives made in different places. It only takes one example of a name brand knife of similar or better Chinese quality to make my point about the price of off-brand goods.

And, as I've already pointed out to you, I'm not busting on Kizer. I'm pointing out that the value is relative. Some folks would say that a Kizer isn't 1/4 the knife of a $400 Sebenza, and if enough people believe that, it is effectively true.

 

[Cadillac86]

And, as I've already pointed out to you, I'm not busting on Kizer. I'm pointing out that the value is relative. Some folks would say that a Kizer isn't 1/4 the knife of a $400 Sebenza, and if enough people believe that, it is effectively true.

As my old Platoon Sergeant put it, "Perception is reality" and sadly that is true.

 

[RX-79G]

As my old Platoon Sergeant put it, "Perception is reality" and sadly that is true.

I don't think it is sad that a perception word like "value" is perception. That's all it is.

 

[AusLoX]

We use China because it is the most money we will get back from any outside country at the moment. We acquire about 70 cents per dollar spent in China. Verse Europe which is around 50 cents. Basically we make back 70 cents for every dollar spent in China due to the packaging, shipping, raw materials, and design cost that the US provides. China literally manufactures the product. So I'd rather we go to China to purchase products because American companies benefit from 70% of each dollar spent opposed to 50% from Europe. The Chinese manufacturing companies take the US dollars to their banks and exchange them for China Yuan to purchase products in their country. The Chinese gov't takes the US dollars, because you have to send them back to the US to be traded for Yuan currency or use the money in the US to purchase assets, to buy mostly US Treasuries. Thus, we get our dollars back in our economy and we can continue the cycle. The downside that everyone is complaining about is the fact that China owns lots of American Currency and US Treasuries which in turn becomes US debt. BUT when the US dollar drops in value, like in the past recession, the US buys back the treasuries at a much much lower value than they were purchased. So I'm not worried at all about our economy, I'd be worried about China's economy. All my colleagues have pulled investments out of China, so have I. The way money works is an amazing. My favorite concept to explain to people is the way money is generated out of thin air on a daily basis from the bank exchanges, OTC markets, and derivatives play. Which is why the gold standard is the most awful system for any country to use(I won't get into that now). If anyone gets a chance read how the Federal Reserve works, utterly insane. Don't read the stuff about how bad the fed is and all that slander type stuff. Read how it truly works. There's a great paper written for congress in 1998 that's in the congressional library (you can find the PDF online).

Sorry to derail the thread.

Love my Kizer GTi :thumbup:

 

[Comeuppance]

I will say that Kizer's more recent offerings no longer represent the amazing value their initial offerings did. The 4450ti, to reference it once again, is $200 on BHQ, and is a Ti framelock S35vn flipper. The Zero Tolerance 0808 is $200 on BHQ, and is a Ti framelock (with a lock insert) s35vn bearing flipper. I also have experience with Kai's customer service, which has been stellar every single time. Hell, they even machined a new pocket clip for my TiLT...

I thought Kizer's ~60 S35VN linerlocks were a sweet deal until I remembered the Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight, which runs about the same with the same steel... I like Kizer all the same, but I certainly don't see them as some sort of secret awesome value knife company like I used to.