KMG vs. TW90 (objective comparison)

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
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5,703
It is not for now but I will eventually need another grinder.

I see a lot of threads where the TW90 is mentioned and I am intrigue that some people find it superior to a KMG (what I have now) in the same way a KMG would be compared to a 2X42. Or that's almost what I get from their posts. I've looked at the TW90 and don't get me wrong, it looks great and there may be some intangibles here that you only get by using it. But on paper I see better tracking and versatility (it flips 90 degrees and has a surface grinder att.) as the main advantages and don't see how this makes it the that much better than a KMG. Again, I know it may be better but the new standard making the KMG obsolete?

Again this is not a brand war. I am just curious why the difference between what I see on paper and what I read from some folks.

Educate me.
 
I think to compare you need to compare equally. Frame to frame, not any of the bells and whistles you can stick on it. The KMG is open and a great base for which to build your own mods for, TW90 just has some more stuff available for it from the builder.

the 90 degree feature is nothing new, Bader offers it, not too hard to mod a KMG to do it just add a hinge to the base plate and mount to a heavy enough bench.

So it comes to the frame and basics of the machine itself. Who's to say it tracks better then a KMG or vise versa, really only someone who owns or has owned both can say. Is the platen better? are the wheels better? The frame on the KMG is much more stout, built from heavier plate. TW-90 is cut from 1/4".

Is it easier to modify the TW90 or add on things, like a secondary tooling arm holder? not really. But it seems if you are spending that much money on a grinder, you dont really make things for yourself you just buy them from the manufacturer.

I like the little spark shield at the top of the idler the tw90 has, I added one to my KMG.
 
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The KMG is a good machine and a staple in this industry. From owning both though I can say the TW90 is a superior machine. The tracking, ratchet belt tension, smoothness/quietness are way superior. Horizontal use is excellent instead of having to rig some hinge for a kmg to do the same. The fit and finish is just incredible. Now I will say I prefer the KMG platen. I also plan to add the KMG rotary platen for my TW90.

Jim
 
Patrice, come over after blade. Ill have both and you can check for yourself.


But the tw is the better machine. :)
 
peter r said:
Patrice, come over after blade. Ill have both and you can check for yourself.


But the tw is the better machine. :)
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jll346 said:
The KMG is a good machine and a staple in this industry. From owning both though I can say the TW90 is a superior machine. The tracking, ratchet belt tension, smoothness/quietness are way superior. Horizontal use is excellent instead of having to rig some hinge for a kmg to do the same. The fit and finish is just incredible. Now I will say I prefer the KMG platen. I also plan to add the KMG rotary platen for my TW90.

Jim
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The Tw90 looks great. I think it's fair to say, look at the near $1400 increase in price. Assuming my math is correct.
 
Jeremy Barnard said:
The Tw90 looks great. I think it's fair to say, look at the near $1400 increase in price. Assuming my math is correct.
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Worth every single penny! The thing is a work of art. Besides makes knives!
 
Not to derail the thread, but what is the plate near the tracking wheel used for. I can't seem to find any videos about it. Could it be for sharpening?
 
jawilder said:
Not to derail the thread, but what is the plate near the tracking wheel used for. I can't seem to find any videos about it. Could it be for sharpening?
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I have never tried to sharpen on it but it is a great spark/grit deflector for me.
 
I've used pretty much every grinder out there except the Pheer, and some other lesser known options.

What Sam said is essentially correct. Honestly, every 2x72 I've used does it's job, unless there is a problem specific to the machine maintenance. If a machine isn't tracking, it's got an issue, it's usually not an issue with all machine of that make, just that particular machine. They either track correctly, or they don't.. There's only machines that track properly, and machines that are screwed up. Not really any such thing as "better tracking".

The feature about the TW-90 I really like is the way the tracking and belt tensioning arm is built, it's very nice, and belt changes are super quick, and you can really adjust the torque or lack there of, without moving the tooling arms in and out like you have to with spring tensioned designs. I like the big bader style wheels also, and the way it pivots, instead of "flipping" over, which means less moving around if you're switching from vertical to horizontal.


What I don't like about it is the Bader style tooling, the single tooling slot (ditto with KMG), and the fact that you have to build accessories or jigs to attach to the tooling arms themselves. It also limits the tooling interchangeability between type of grinders, basically Baders or TW's, so adding a second less expensive grinder is less of an option.

Unlike Baders, Burr Kings, and the various square wheel grinders out there, I don't think the TW-90 is overrated. It's feature rich, rock solid, and highly refined single purpose solution. If you don't have room for multiple grinders, and especially if you don't have room for a surface grinder (although you'd have to be real real cramped for that to be legitimate), then it's a great investment, especially if you don't have the time or skill to build or modify to purpose.

The KMG is a great starting platform, although I really think it's versatility is limited by the single tooling arm slot, and the amount of setup that seem to be needed, which contributes to the impression that the tracking is inferior.


Honestly though, other than the horizontal feature, a properly setup KMG (stock), and a TW-90, will perform the basic functions of grinding, equally. I personally though, feel that in the exception of the circumstances mentioned above that would make the TW-90 ideal, there are better alternatives on both price and features, but I'll stop beating the dead horse. ;P
 
Good post, Javand. You made it without mentioning the Wilmont grinders! Good job.:p Seriously though, I do wonder why those machines don't have as much buzz... the higher end ones are beautiful machines, too.

Not to irk anyone, I feel that part of the TW-90 buzz is that not only is it new and nice, but it's somewhat of a status symbol due to it's price. Travis must be a good marketer, too, and I don't mean that in a backhanded way. Good for him.
 
I met and talked with Travis at blade last year. The machine, when running at full speed is much, much quieter than either of my Baders. The belt ratchet system innovative and the horizontal option makes it like having 2 grinders in one. When you turn it 90deg to horizontal you only have to move the work rest 90deg as well.
Travis is also constantly coming up with new attachments ideas. It also comes power coated so no worry about it rusting.

It is on my list as my next grinder and if I don't order one before blade I will order at blade.
 
Can anyone try to explain why the tw90 would track better? Wheel positioning, type of wheel, high belt tension from the ratcheting mechanism. Just trying to wrap my head around this. Are the drive and idler wheels different than the kmg?
 
I only know what Ive been told by owners of both..It seems that every single person ive talked to that owns both a KMG and TW90 prefer the TW90 over the KMG..Not that anyones knocking the KMG at all but they say that the TW90 is just that much nicer and smoother..
 
I have yet to try one. I'm looking forward to it though. Maybe I'll go to OCKA or Boise finally and do it then.
 
PT Doc said:
Can anyone try to explain why the tw90 would track better? Wheel positioning, type of wheel, high belt tension from the ratcheting mechanism. Just trying to wrap my head around this. Are the drive and idler wheels different than the kmg?
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The only real likely reason a KMG would be tracking poorly would be alignment issues between the wheels(or tension, but that's not an issue usually with compression springs like the KMG setup).

One of the things that's great about a TW-90 is that all the potential operator error, or guess work, is taken out of it.

Usually, if you've got the ability to fine-tune those issues, you could likely build a grinder from scratch, or you've fixed your KMG and you're happy with it. Otherwise, you fight the grinder forever, and it's like night and day when you get a TW-90, which is flawless out of the box.



Also I wanted to comment on the issue of "noise". From what I've seen, from building a couple grinders, working with many others, is that the primary noise factor comes from one source: belts interfacing with the grinder components. If you turn a grinder on without a belt, they're all quiet. Another less important (from a noise standpoint) can be bearings, and the surfaces they're riding on. The biggest noise source I've observed is where the belt rides over the flat platen.

Alot of flat platens are set up with the glass or platen plate riding a bit high over the idlers (which are also noisier than contact wheels for whatever reason, slip maybe?), the TW-90 has very tight tolerances in this area, with the wheels being very well lined up with the plate usually, and radius on the top and bottom edge if it were to be adjusted higher. That plus higher tension eliminating slip on the non-rubber faced wheels, seems to be the reason they're usually so much quieter.

I'm not sure where, but I know some proliferation of information (Harvey Dean flat grinding DVD maybe?), stating that you should have your platen ride high off the idlers to grind tangs vertically or some such, seems to be the reason why so many flat platen assemblies are configured this way.

That's just my observations, YMMV.
 
I have a Variable speed KMG and got a small wheel attachment(4 diff wheels), rotary platen, 10" wheel, flat platen and built a portable stand that flips my KMG horizontal for using my MAP arm for less than the TW. I did however acquire everything in stages.
 
One reason I purchased two KMG's over time is that they came unpainted. No frills; I think of Army Jeep instead of Hummer, when talking KMG. A solid machine that is easily tweaked and can be built on. I know the TW90 is a beauty, but at twice the price it would have to make coffee in the morning for me to consider it.
 
I only have experience with the TW90, and I have to say it is great. It is very quiet, and very well built. It tracks very well. I do wish that the platen would tilt back like the KMG instead of just being vertical. I have no complaints with the TW90. I really don't see the price difference. If you were to take a KMG , add a Leeson 2hp, VFD, the platen, small wheel, and 8" wheel, KMG horizontal grinder, another Leeson 2hp and another VFD, I think you will find the TW90 to be a good deal.
 
kentucky said:
i only know what ive been told by owners of both..it seems that every single person ive talked to that owns both a kmg and tw90 prefer the tw90 over the kmg..not that anyones knocking the kmg at all but they say that the tw90 is just that much nicer and smoother..
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exactly.
 
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