Knife design ; Ethics

M

Mark Pointen

Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
387
Hey Guys, I can't find any threads on this. What are thoughts on building other peoples knife designs? what designs are public use ? If I build a loveless drop point will I piss Bob off? I asked Al Polkowski about building a bulldog and he says knifemakers should build their own designs. What about a bowie, is there a usefull style that hasn't been done? probably, but is it my job as a maker to only build completely original knives? Sorry for the rant but it's weighing heavy on me.
 
I have seen many folks make Loveless knives. I actually think of it as a compliment to Bob, to see other people make his design. Lets face it, it's a great design, that is hard to beat. I personally have not made one, but would like to. I just have'nt gotten around to it. In regards to Bowie knives, I'm not a fan of using one but sure am a fan of looking at some of the fantastic ones I have seen here on B.F. Just take a look at some of J.Neilsons Bowies, they are as perfect as perfect gets.

I say, go ahead and make what you want.Some may disagree, this is just how I feel.

Cheers
Nick :)
 
I don't make knives (and I am obviously new to this forum) - I make Custom Leather Holsters, and have faced the same question myself. I asked one of the well known Holster Makers about it, and his take on it was pretty surprising, as I expected a basic NO.

He basically said the following:

There are only so many ways to do a given craft - Knives, Holsters, Gunsmithing. Don't ever COPY a design, make it your own in some way, and give credit to the design/designer that inspired YOUR design. If it is a patented design, you can't copy it anyway, but as you mentioned, many designs have been around and you can't help but copy them if you want to make that style of whatever.

I never copy a design, I give my rendition of it and if it is based on something similar I disclose that. If it is similar to something currently available, I have asked permission, assuming only one maker is making it.

Hope this helps a little.

5Shot
 
Well said 5shot I ment to say something along the lines of makeing it your own in someway, and give credit to the original designer. But dumb me left it out on my post.

Nick
 
After hearing it from a guy who has been copied many, many times, I felt relieved.

There is a reason it is hard to come up with something totally unique - knives have been around for how long?
 
You would'nt happen to be talking about Lou would you? I know of a few guys who make holsters and are always taking ideas from him.

Nick
 
What 5shot said. I've made loveless style hunters and I've made Fowler style hunters. Always give creadit to the originator, and don't try to make it so that it's an exact copy or so that it could be mistaken for anouther makers work.

I've got an order for a fowler style hunter I'm working on now. The biggest issue to me is that the customer wants full sheep horn handles very similar to Ed's trademark design. I'm changing the design enough, I hope, that there will never be any question as to who made it, but I will still give creadit to Ed for his unique style.
 
NWA said:
You would'nt happen to be talking about Lou would you? I know of a few guys who make holsters and are always taking ideas from him.

Nick
Click to expand...

Well, one of my best selling holsters (which happens to be of my own design) is called the "Uncle Lou" ;)

5Shot
 
I worked my design out on my own, one aspect at a time. I am still working on it! In the last 30 years I have seen many of 'my ideas' in other knives, often made before I was born. Giving credit is both honest and a compliment to the man who inspired you. When you consider that there have been millions of knife maker through time, someone had the idea before. The whole challenge is knowing why, what for aspects of the the design, then you fly.
 
If your like me even if I try to copy a knife it still won't end up looking anywhere close to the original. If one of my knives does end up looking exactly like someone else's it is purely accidental. Besides if the original maker did see it he we would be laughing so hard that the tears would not allow him to notice most of the details.:o
 
Mark Pointen said:
Hey Guys, I can't find any threads on this. What are thoughts on building other peoples knife designs? what designs are public use ? If I build a loveless drop point will I piss Bob off? I asked Al Polkowski about building a bulldog and he says knifemakers should build their own designs. What about a bowie, is there a usefull style that hasn't been done? probably, but is it my job as a maker to only build completely original knives? Sorry for the rant but it's weighing heavy on me.
Click to expand...


I talked to Bob Terzuola a couple of years ago about this very thing at the NYCS show. He could care less. There are more knife makers coping Bob's ATCF folder than any other custom folder ever made. The people who pioneered these classic paterns can sell as may knives as they could ever make. Do you really think Bob Loveless thinks some part-time maker who makes 100 or so knives a year is cutting in to his business?

Some very well known makers have boldly copied others work. During the time when Jimmy Lile was the king of knife making for his Rambo I & II knives Colin Cox was selling a hollow handled clip point bowie with saw teeth on the spine of the blade. It appeared in photo ads in Blade magazine, Care to hazard a guess on the name of the knife in question? "Fierce Blood"
 
I enjoy making my own designs now but had allot of trouble for years making good looking knife shapes on my own. If I made a Loveless style it would sell for 3 times what my own shapes would bring. They were so close to Bobs that people would stop and look for his name, when they saw Bruce D Bump on the ricasso they would put it back down and walk off. I cant beat him so I very rarely make his designs anymore. I feel its OK to copy the shape but not to try to duplicate anybodys work who is still alive. I want to make a Moran sometime. Do you think I can sell it for $30,000? :)
 
I want to make a Moran sometime. Do you think I can sell it for $30,000? :)[/QUOTE]

Ya, sure! :D

I never have wanted to someone else's design and I can't stand to duplicate something I have already made.
 
I think it's okay to be inspired by someone's work -and to learn by making your own rendition of it. What better way to learn something than to imitate and practise it -this can be applied to nearly everything else in life.

But to profit off someone else's designs without giving that maker credit is wrong. I personally feel that Bob Lum should have received credit for his Americanized tanto design (Cold Steel should have given him credit -rather than state they were the originators of that design).

I've only been making knives for two years, I have a Grizzly grinder and my so called "shop" is only 5 feet by 5 feet. I was initially inspired to make my own knife by Bob Loveless' work and more recently by Bob Dozier. The only designs that I've made which resemble their work is given to friends. I sell my own designs. :)

I think experienced knifemakers should make their own designs unless requested to "copy" someone else's work by a customer -but in that case, where's the fun and creativity in it. If it's not creative, why bother doing it -isn't creativity why we're all doing this? I know it's not the money. If someone blatantly asks me to copy another maker's work, I tell them that I'll give them my own rendition of it. If that's not good enough, they should contact the original maker.
 
The one time I gave credit to another maker for a design, the maker called me on the phone madder than hell, because his customers thought he had gone out of business. No good deed goes unpunished!
 
I was just emailed yesterday by a maker asking if he could copy one of my designes.
My answer to him was tat all I can hope for is that my design inspires your own version of it. I take what inspires me and try to alter it to what I want to look for in a knife. My thoughts are if he puts his spin on it he can make a design better than mine and we all keep growing :)
 
As I spend a lot of time in books,magazines and knife sites on the net,certian designs stick with me. But with so much out there I make what I see in my mind. May be inspired by knives by 3 different makers. Inspired by,yes, to copy,no. I don't think a maker should try to make exact copies of someone who is still making,but being inspired by should be a compliment to the original maker. Just my opinion.
 
There are still new and fresh designs to be had, but if you think in terms of the standard 3" drop point ( which is what i started making ) or cliped bowie then its what you use and how you use it may detemine your style. I have had great success with mine line of hornets , not for everyone but it does work .

sar
 
I have a friend that has retired from knifemaking.
One of his designs was copied by two well known makers while he was still in business, but without asking his permission.
I do have his permission to start making knives in his design.
Should I?
 
I think there is definately a big difference between copying another maker's design and drawing inpiration from it. The hundreds of WSK's that popped up after "The Hunted" is a good example. There are lots of makers which make knives that are obviously influenced by the original, but are personalized. There are also alot of companies that seem to just attempt to copy the original exactly. I guess the question of how far into the gray area between influence and copy you go is a personal question.
 
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