Knife discrimination

[rje58]

It is beyond irresponsible to pretend that people in the US are charged and convicted of crimes based solely on objective guilt, no matter how you feel about policing and the criminal justice system it is a fact that many people end up with convictions for reasons that wouldn't necessarily make them intentional criminals. Some are unfairly targeted for unreasonable treatment, some are best described as convenient victims of circumstance, but we're presumably all adults here and there is no way any of us actually believe the courts generate honest results 100% of the time. It's simply impossible even if everyone involved had perfectly honorable motivations.

I agree with much of your post, quoted above. However, I'm not sure what you mean by "intentional criminals".

I think it's also beyond irresponsible to pretend that the vast majority of the people convicted of violent crimes were somehow railroaded, framed or otherwise innocent citizens who happened to piss off the wrong LEO or prosecutor or evil power broker...

Again, everyone has different opinions, but I'd rather go with the system we have than assume that the system is irrevocably broken because, as you noted, "It's simply impossible even if everyone involved had perfectly honorable motivations."

We don't quit driving and banish automobiles that result in tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries EVERY YEAR, but many people seem to be willing to ban firearms, defund the police and empty the prisons because of dozens or hundreds of people who are unfairly treated. We can disagree over "dozens or hundreds" or whatever number anyone might come up with - but we can rest assured that no where near 30,000+ people are dying in the criminal justice system each year as die in automobiles. Is transportation worth 40,000 lives a year but would more people live or die or be treated more fairly or less fairly if we had a more lenient criminal justice system? Would the potential additional victims offset any good that was done by fairer treatment of those caught up in the web of law enforcement?

Surely everyone can agree that we should strive to have the most fair and equitable criminal justice system POSSIBLE - but as you've already said, correctly - it's simply impossible to have a perfect system.

I think it's silly that so many members of the public freak out when someone pulls out a pocket knife in a public place or work situation to open a package, slice an apple or cut some tape or cardboard. What does that have to do with the criminal justice system? How did this thread get so derailed?

 

[Bob Denman]

I've known and been friends with quite a few people who had felony convictions in their past. Each one did their time, learned from it, and are the most honest folks I know.

Some people on this forum are new here, we used to have a good friend CMFTW Matthew Freeman, a convicted felon, who worked hard to earn his sobriety. Damn good knife maker as he turned his life around, and was an inspiration for quite a few. He helped anyone he could with his time and knowledge. I'd trust Matt over many people.

I am glad that you know a person who made their way back.
But it far too rare of an occurence.

 

[Joopie]

It is beyond irresponsible to pretend that people in the US are charged and convicted of crimes based solely on objective guilt, no matter how you feel about policing and the criminal justice system it is a fact that many people end up with convictions for reasons that wouldn't necessarily make them intentional criminals. Some are unfairly targeted for unreasonable treatment, some are best described as convenient victims of circumstance, but we're presumably all adults here and there is no way any of us actually believe the courts generate honest results 100% of the time. It's simply impossible even if everyone involved had perfectly honorable motivations.

Adding to this, there is a phenomenon of creating new crimes, turning misdemeanors into felonies, and so on. Too many things are crimes that shouldn't be. See the book "Three Felonies a Day" for an analysis of this perversion.

 

[rje58]

Adding to this, there is a phenomenon of creating new crimes, turning misdemeanors into felonies, and so on. Too many things are crimes that shouldn't be. See the book "Three Felonies a Day" for an analysis of this perversion.

Agreed, but this is actually TWO different problems.

1. Criminal justice system: the issue of balancing the safety and welfare of law-abiding citizens with the rights and proper treatment of criminals and those accused of crimes - crimes that everyone knows and agrees are in fact, crimes!
2. Government overreach and oppression, and "trend crimes", "creating crimes" as you stated, to punish political enemies or influence voting with 'popular' issues, ie. drugs, ecology, religion, ethnicity, culture, etc.

Let's not confuse laws against murder, rape and robbery with laws about recreational drugs, ecology, religion, ethnicity, culture, etc. The commonality of course is that they are laws - but the underlying justification, motivation and history is almost completely and absolutely different.

It's probably time to close this thread about "non-knife people who discriminate against knife owners and freak out about my pocket knife" and for someone to open a new thread about legal systems and criminal justice systems.