Knife for Philmont

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dtownknifekid

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Dec 21, 2006
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My scout troop is going to philmont scout revervation in New Mexico for backpacking relatively soon, and I was wondering if there were any scouts former scouts out there that could help. Are knive neccesarry or even allowed at philmont? If so what should i use? I has to be a folder under five inches(stupid regulation), i already have a cold steel Recon 1 and a cold steel scimitar are those good?
 
Haven't been there since I was a tadpole, but doubt you will need much more than a SAK or Leatherman. Think light -- you're going to be carrying a lot of gear.
 
I worked at Philmont for ten years and can pass along a bit of advice.

You probably won't be allowed to carry a fixed blade - the Scouts discourage those. Your Crew's cook kit will have kitchen knives, so you won't need anything like that. Things tend to "disappear" when around groups of people and when camping, even among your best friends. So don't take anything expensive, anything with sentimental value, or anything that can't easily be replaced. Light weight is critical.

So an inexpensive lightweight knife that will be for your own personal use. A Swiss Army Knife with the tweezers would be an excellent choice. I like a sturdy locking blade, but that's a matter of personal preference.

Have a safe trip!
-Bob
 
Bob W said:
So don't take anything expensive, anything with sentimental value, or anything that can't easily be replaced. Light weight is critical.
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I brought a BenchMade 804 :o . However, looking back on it, Bob's advice rings very true. Sure, the big BM came in handy at times, but a small knife with multiple functions (think SAK) would have served just fine. Good luck, have fun, and Be Prepared!
 
I was in scouts for some years (earned the rank of Eagle ;) ), and although I never went backpacking, did many other things from canoe trips to week long tenting. I would say the most knife you'll NEED is a SAK, and in fact thats probably just about perfect. Maybe not such a bad idea to augment with something like a Buck 110 or one of the smallish, lighter tactical folders out there...

The big knives as far as popularity went in my day were the leatherman or gerber multipliers and the gerber gators. A lot of the old timers carried slipjoints though.
 
In addition to whatever you do for a folder - and you don't need anything very tactical or sexy - I would consider taking a small multitool with plilers. I got a few rations of stuff from family and friends for taking a Leatherman P4 Squirt. "Whatcha gonna do with that, it's just dead weight." Well, we had a scout's pack break on the trail and the ONLY reason we could fix it was because we had a small set of pliers.

I am not suggesting a large multitool, however. The Squirt or a SOG Crossgrip weigh only a couple of ounces.
 
The Squirt or a SOG Crossgrip weigh only a couple of ounces.
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Agreed. Lots of stuff to potentially use a small multi-tool on. Frame pack rings, stove repairs, etc. But everyone doesn't need one - I'd say if one person on the crew has a Leatherman then you're all set.

-Bob
 
I would say something light weight and functional. What works best is up to you.

mmmotorcycle
 
Bob W said:
Agreed. Lots of stuff to potentially use a small multi-tool on. Frame pack rings, stove repairs, etc. But everyone doesn't need one - I'd say if one person on the crew has a Leatherman then you're all set.

-Bob
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Completely agree, one per crew is enough.
 
I believe the current BSA regulations for a carrying knife state that it must not be a fixed blade or lock back. I would think that it would be prudent to carry a victorinox type pocket knife, the Huntsman for example. With the "Leave no Trace" program in place you will not be cutting any live plants for shelters or fire making. In fact fires in general are frowned upon as they mark up the land. Philemon adheres to the most stringent scouting regulations out there. The small but sharp swill army folding knife is all you will need for a troop experience involving a cutting tool.
 
Since when do they forbid lock backs?? If they do now, not only is a news to me, but it makes me extremely sad.
 
I've never heard that about lockbacks either. I wouldn't expect that to be enforced at Philmont since many of the staff and rangers there carry lockbacks, or did when I worked there.

But you're correct about cutting/scarring live plants. Backpackers and Scouts follow a no-trace ethic because of outdoor etiquette; military teams do it to save their lives. It's a good practice to follow.

-Bob
 
From the training I received for "outdoor leadership" I was told not to use a fixed blade or a lock back. I asked why on the lockback, and was told if you fell on it, it would be potentially more dangerous than a non locking folder. You have to remember that everything is guided for the youngest member of the troop who would be 11 years old, I do not agree with not being able to use a lock back, but this is what the BSA Scouter who taught the class told me. When I was in scouts we had some scouts carrying K-98 bayonets lol. I personally like the SAK very much, having even used the magnifying glass to start camp fires in Fl. From my experience its all the knife you need in a scout setting where you will not be doing any heavy wood work, and in that case I use a small bow saw and not a hatchet. In a NON scouting situation I carry a Frosts Mora and have a GB small forestry axe and plenty of water proof matches along with tinder.
 
Scouting "discourages use of large sheath knives". They don't forbid them, nor do they forbid locking folders. My son's troop (I'm an Asst. Scoutmaster in it) allows reasonable-sized fixed blades. Some scout-owned camps do ban fixed blade knives.

I'd suggest you get a smallish lightweight locking folder. The $20 Dozier spearpoint is one to consider. Lightweight and inexpensive enough to be lost without too many tears.

A fullsize multitool is pretty heavy for backpacking, though some of the smaller lighterweight LM's could might do well for you. The LM Micra was popular with some backpackers, but I think its been discontinued (I think?).

Though I prefer larger locking knives under most circumstanced (I EDC a mini-Rittergrip) if I were backpacking I'd likely bring one of these:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=VN53208

A small blade, scissors, tweezers, and VERY lightweight. Even that may seem very heavy after those many miles.
 
Lockbacks are fine at Philmont. My son went during 2005 with his Delica and was just fine. Fixed blades are apprarently taboo for now though. Forget the multitools ...(too heavy), just bring a nice super sharp folder like a Delica, Calypso Jr, or Endura.
 
I don't see why you are all saying they are too heavy, but then again I've never gone backwoods backpacking either... But still, my gerber is only a couple ounces; certainly well under half a pound.
 
I don't see why you are all saying they are too heavy, but then again I've never gone backwoods backpacking either... But still, my gerber is only a couple ounces; certainly well under half a pound.
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My backpacking knife weighs 0.8 oz. :D
It's a fixed blade though so wouldn't be allowed at Philmont, although I doubt anyone would ever notice it.

The AG Russell FeatherLite, KaBar Dozier, Bucklite, Gerber EZ Out, Spyderco Delica, etc., etc. would all be great knives for Philmont. A #8 Opinel would be perfect (what I carried for many years on staff), as would a small - midsize Swiss Army Knife.

-Bob

added:
I asked why on the lockback, and was told if you fell on it, it would be potentially more dangerous than a non locking folder.
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I think whoever told you that made it up themselves. There is no such BSA rule about lockbacks, not even a recommendation. In fact there are Official BSA lockback knives.
 
I should think that, based upon the backpacking that I did somer time ago, a knife such as a Delica or an Endura plus a SOG Crossgrip Minitool would be the way to go. The Minigrip is, literally, a keychain sized tool that has a blade, a tiny flat screwdriver, a larger flart screwdriver, tweezers, a bottle opener, a file, and a toothpick as well as the aforesaid gear driven pliers. The gear drive gives you tremendous grip, all out of proportion to their size. I carry one clipped to my belt loop by a minicarabiner as well as its mate, the SOG Crosscut tool (same thing but with the pliers replaced by a pair of scissors) on my keychain.
 
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