Knife for the Backcountry Trip

Going to Philmont, eh?
Enjoy your trek. I did mine. It's awesome, aint it?
I'd suggest something well-built, but not terribly expensive so that if an accident occurs and you lose it (for instance, if somehow the clip unattaches itself from your pocket/packstrap, you ford a deep stream and it washes away, etc) you don't beat yourself up too much over it. My one buddy in my crew took a CRKT M16 (although it was a more expensive, military model). But even an $80 knife is less of a loss in an eventuality than, say, a $150 blade.
Have fun,
PMZ

EDIT: As a side note, I'd have to agree with Bob. Don't even bother with a fixed blade or even a really heavy, large folder. They'll just tell you to toss it aside before you set out. And he's right.....some crews experience theft within their ranks, especially if your group is a conglomeration of people from your district. My crew trusted each other, but some troops don't have the same amount of trust. Be wise in your choice when you consider a "high-end" knife.
 
bruce said:
Chris Adams is correct in that the Boy Scouts "discourage" ["large sheath"] . . . knives . . . . [edited to reflect BSA policy from p. 78 of 11th Ed. BSHB]
Click to expand...

ut only a few camps have actually put a ban on them. I have run up against a couple of these in assisting my troop with their summer camp schedule. I've called the camp director and heard his side of the story which is "boys will cut things we don't want cut" and "too much liability".
Click to expand...

But AXES are A-OK. :rolleyes: And the Scout Stores sell 8" fixed-blade knives as part of the Chef's Kit.

Not that the Scouts from those Counsils will ever, ever encounter fixed-blade knives and need to know how to safely and properly use them. Nope. Never could happen.

Thankfully, common sense rules in most Councils, including mine.

(Top Philmont tip: take extra food. My three crews lost an average of a pound a day per member -- even the hockey players and long-distance runners. :eek: )
 
If you don't want to spend an arm and a leg, Becker Kinfe and Tool's fixed blades from Camillus are some of the finest I have ever used. The Becker Companion can be found online for $40-$50 and is the stoutest, strongest blade I think i have ever used. All Becker blades are super thick carbon steel and I've used the short bladed companion to split firewood, instead of a hatchet. The handles are crazy thick compsite and might be uncomfortable if you have smaller hands. Otherwise, the kydex sheath is secure and has a snap strap to keep in in, even when mounted on gear upside down. If you want quality for under $10 go online and find Frost's cutlery of Sweden not Frost as in Jim Frost's crappy Taiwan Junk). Frost's makes simple, plastic handled fixed blades of Sweish carbon steel similar to the Mora line. Again, these are dirt cheap if you damage or lose one and they cut like demons! One of the best fish knives I have ever used. I think knifecenter.com carries them.
 
If you can afford it, a Bark River "Northstar" or a Bob Dozier "Wlderness" would be unbeatable.

Ben
 
good luck getting any descent knife into philmont

i went to jambo 05 and my council banned knives over 4" and frowned on everything but scout knives
hope phimont is less of a pain for you
 
good luck getting any descent knife into philmont

i went to jambo 05 and my council banned knives over 4" and frowned on everything but scout knives
hope phimont is less of a pain for you
 
joehawth said:
good luck getting any descent knife into philmont

i went to jambo 05 and my council banned knives over 4" and frowned on everything but scout knives
hope phimont is less of a pain for you
Click to expand...

Good Lord, man, have the Boy Scouts really sunk that far down??? That breaks my heart!:(

When I got out of the scouts in 1959, as a "star" I carried a "boy scout knife" in my pocket, and a surplus Marine Corp "Ka-Bar" on my belt. On overnight trips, I also had a scout axe lashed to my knapsack.
 
ya its too bad about what theve done against knives
i make up for it by carrying the biggest mag-lite they make, 6 d cells lol
 
joehawth said:
ya its too bad about what theve done against knives
i make up for it by carrying the biggest mag-lite they make, 6 d cells lol
Click to expand...

I guess that I remember the scouts as somewhat of a paramilitary group for young men. Soldiers carried rifles, and scouts (future soldiers) carried sheath knives. It was the order of things.
 
Scouting does not ban fixed-blade knives. It "discourages" "large sheath knives" as unnecessary to the Scouting program. However, Councils and units, as entities themselves, can elect to ban fixed-blade knives.

I have found that the Councils in this area that ban fixed-blade knives also sell them as part of the "Chef's Kit" of cooking utensils - oblivious to the contradiction.

Those deciding on the bans are not outdoors people. Their view, from behind office desks, is that fixed-blade knives are just too dangerous. Asked to show with their hands how large a "fixed-blade knife" would be, they describe a knife at least 12" OA.

As possible, I show them a Bark River OMF a Lone Wolf Harsey Ranger and the utility knife they sell in the Chef's Kit and, respectfully, ask them to consider the basis of their ban.

In life, ignorance supports a host of questionable decisions.

I never thought of, or think of, Scouting as "paramilitary."
 
I wouldn't consider it as paramilitary either, however, I do believe that the decision to let a Scout carry a sheath knife should lie with each Troop's leaders, according to their perception of each individual boy's sense of responsibility.
That's the way it should be....however it isn't anymore. Recently, for an example, I as an adult Scout Leader, was pretty much yelled at by another leader for carrying a diver's knife at my belt on a winter trip on which it had performed many useful tasks. He had absolutely no idea that the knife was not a "weapon,"--to me it is just a good tool, but as soon as he glimpsed it he went into hysterics, going on and on about how "You shouldn't be carrying that--None of Our Boys should be carrying a thing like that, so you shouldn't either." Just like that--simply from its appearance--he had judged it, and me as well.
I think I should mention that both that leader AND our new Scoutmaster had just graduated from the ranks of Cub Scout leaders....this might explain their naivete and ignorance regarding knives and knife safety in general. It only demonstrates the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts--and those differences are supposed to be there. The new Scoutmaster has also been organizing "Family trips"--like Troop 242 is an "extension" of the Cub Pack.
Dumb.
PMZ
 
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllll, here's a thought. Those same Councils that bar fixed-blade knives allow axes, and no un-powered woods tool is more dangerous than the hand axe when severity of injury is considered.

I mean, it's not as if an axe was ever used as a weapon, right? :D

So the ol' finger remover is OK for playing "I'll get my hand holding the wood outta' the way in time," but a stout fixed-blade for batoning is not OK. :rolleyes:

They need to take the OLS course where, hopefully, they will get educated. Twenty-three got the message here this weekend, and they thought the Ranger RD-7, Ranger RD-9, BRKT Golok, and BJ 1-7 were fantabulous for batonning. In fact, all 23 selected one of those tools and "The Contact Method" to prepare "fuel" wood from rounds, as opposed to a good selection of nice axes. "
 
I guess the "paramilitary" bit was a result of the era, and place I grew up. A small rural town, where boys were taught that we had a "six year military obligation to our country." We also had a draft for those few that weren't patriotic enough to enlist.

Scouting taught us woodcraft skills, discipline, and teamwork that would be useful not only in the army, but as hunters, fishermen and campers throughout our life.

Marine Ka-Bars were a prized possession, as were army surplus entrenching tools.

I raked many a lawn, and washed and waxed many a car to afford that old Ka-Bar, and that surplus "idiot spoon."
 
My son is a Cub Scout (Wolf). I hope he goes on to become an Eagle Scout (If he wants to).

I've always thought of the Scouts as a paramilitary organization. I have no problem with it. I doubt that if anyone prior to the 1960's referred to them as such it would have raised an eyebrow. Now of course, it doesn't sound politically correct. Many people equate "Paramilitary" with "Militia" (A big time PC no-no word).

I don't think anyone can reasonably contend that the Scouts don't borrow many aspects of what they do from the military. I'm glad that they do. Good for them (And for the boys) as far as I'm concerned. The fact is, if a boy goes into the military or not, he will benefit from the training he receives in the BSA.

I guess it's a matter of semantics or interpretation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary

"Other paramilitary groups adopt military organization and aspects of military culture and discipline, but are not intended to fight at all."
 
Vee3 said:
. . .I've always thought of the Scouts as a paramilitary organization. I have no problem with it. I doubt that if anyone prior to the 1960's referred to them as such it would have raised an eyebrow. Now of course, it doesn't sound politically correct. Many people equate "Paramilitary" with "Militia" (A big time PC no-no word).
Click to expand...
If Scouting were a paramilitary organization, one would expect to find some indication of that in the official literature. It is not there, and it is not there in the period of my involvement in Scouting (1954 - ). What one sees is that Scouting is a citizenship training program wrapped in a game.

While, in time of war (esp. WWI and II), things were said about Scouting's role in preparing youth for military service, that is not the nature of Scouting. In such times, GM talking about its role in national defense, and that is not the nature of GM.

When I was a Scout (1954-1961) my SM for half that period was a Master Gunnery SGt. in the USMC -- a veteran of combat in a war and two undeclared wars (Korea and Laos). He did not attempt to make the Troop something other than a Scout Troop. He was a powerful personality and certainly could have influenced the Scouts in a military direction, but he did not. In that he has following the rules, not being an exception.

The units that I have seen since 1982 that stress unquestioning discipline, drill, military uniforms, and such tend to be the adult-run units where the boys are fulfilling an inner need of the adult(s) to be a military unit commander. This is known in Scouting as "The King of the Commandos" problem. It is a problem to be addressed, not a pattern for Scouting.

I don't think anyone can reasonably contend that the Scouts don't borrow many aspects of what they do from the military.
Click to expand...
Sure. There are uniforms, salutes, squads (patrols). But it about ends there. Look to the heart of how things work.

To see the contrast, try to imagine a platoon of Marines electing their platoon leader and the members of the squads electing their respective squad leaders. Then they meet periodically to decide what the squads individually and the platoon collectively are going to do. If they are following policy, these Marines may wear a uniform dictated by others, or they may wear only portions of that uniform. They are taught that a Marine is friendly, friendly, courteous, kind, and cheerful. They are urged to work to change any rules they find improper. The are told to "Leave No Trace" wherever they go in the outdoors and to Do A Good Turn Daily. Not a very real view of "military" or, therefore, of "para" military.

The fact is, if a boy goes into the military or not, he will benefit from the training he receives in the BSA.
Click to expand...
The emphasis on leadership skills (such as teamwork, planning and communication), self-reliance, familiarity with outdoor living, personal initiative -- all are a big edge in the military, as the military has acknowledged on many occasions. "Graduates" of our Troop who have served, or are serving, have told me how valuable their Scouting experince was and is for them in their military role. But, as you say, those skills have wider application.
 
In 1974, there were two things that would allow a "cadet" in college ROTC to waive either his freshman or sophomore year of ROTC in the four year program. They were (1) three years of Jr. ROTC -- high school., or (2) being an Eagle Scout.

I wouldn't classify the Boy Scouts as paramilitary but the real military recognizes them as being developing suitable leaders for the military. Most recruits in Basic Training were asked if they had scouting experience.
 
It seems to me that to teach young men personal responsibility, patriotism and love of "God and Country" is the PERFECT training for fulfilling their military obligation.

Ben
 
I have been a scout leader for about five years, and I don't issue a blanket ban on any type of knife. If the scout knows how to handle it responsibly, then he can bring it. If I see a scout doing something stupid with a knife, it is my prerogative to remove it from his possession. I am a firm believer in encouraging responsible behavior, and I certainly don't fall for the knee-jerk idea that an inanimate object is the source of trouble.

Too bad I can't convince many of my fellow Kalifornians to think this way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top